Transcript
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Kwame
Hello, everybody. Welcome to today's episode of Beyond Influence. My name is Kwami Appiah. Obviously, you've heard my voice way too many times. You might be getting tired of it, but I'm very excited for today's episode because I'm joined by a very special co-host. I'm going to pass it off to you. Lauren, do you want to introduce yourself?
Lauren
Yes, I'd love to. I'm Lauren Phillips, I'm the creator acquisition strategist at Maybelline, where I work to connect with creators and build tailored programs to help them test and grow on the platform.
Kwame
Love that. It almost feels like that was the perfect little intro if we were on stage and introducing Lauren, so it fits the build. But with that being said, we also have a very special guest with us today. I have actually been obviously in a lot of her content for the last couple of days, but our CMO has as well.
And he really loves the content in the way that she displays all the exciting things, and the way that she, basically, just like her brand, is just awesome, fun, exciting. So we love that about her. But today we are joined by Coco. Coco. Hi.
Coco
Thanks for having me.
Kwame
Yes. Thank you for joining us today. I'm just going to like we're going to softball into this. We're going to have a good time with it. So, Coco, where are you right now?
Coco
I am in the farts. I hope I said that right. Mexico for.
Kwame
Oh, yeah.
Coco
For a wedding. So I was so excited to do this interview, though, so I like anyone watching the video version. I packed my microphone in my suitcase, so. Yeah.
Kwame
Lovely. And, so when are you there? Till.
Coco
Till Sunday. Yeah. So I'm here for, like, five days, and it's so nice. It's all inclusive, lovely.
Kwame
All right. Well, well, in that case, it looks like you're having a good time. You said you just got back from the ocean.
Coco
My hair.
Kwame
So, for anyone watching the video version as well. So Coco's having a good time. So, thank you so much for taking the time to join us today. Despite all the fun that you're having and you have a pink mic, I think, yeah, my vision's a little blurry. But yes, I feel like my wife would love that.
My wife's the pink queen. Or so the internet has dubbed her. So, yeah.
Coco
Yes, it's on Amazon if she wants it, but. Yeah.
Kwame
Sweet. Well, so getting into things, Coco, obviously, you've had quite the journey. Becoming a creator and so want to just kind of like, start off with, like where it all began. You seem to have a history even prior to, you know, being out and being the face itself. You've been in the multimedia world for a long time, so I'd love to know.
Kind of just the beginning phases. Yeah.
Coco
I have such an interesting story because I feel like things happened kind of serendipitously for me. But, I studied marketing at San Diego State, and I always say, like, I would have gone into marketing for a lawnmower company. Like, I didn't care. I just wanted to get into it. Like, I just loved it. Like, you know, growing up, I was obsessed with the internet and Myspace and why people's attention went to certain things.
And then, after college, it was just like working at a hair salon, as the person who greets people when they walk in the door. And then, I saw a Craigslist ad for a marketing job, and I was like, oh, my God. And I'm from L.A., so I was like, okay, it's in LA. Like, I need to apply.
And they didn't say, like, what the company name is. And it sounds sketchy, but I was like, you know what? I'm just going to go for it. And it ended up being this place called Famous Birthdays, which is like, honestly, I can't say enough good things because it's what got my foot in the door. Entertainment marketing.
We were like, it's a website for like, it's very hot pink and kind of catered to like Gen Z, you know, Gen Alpha. And so we were the only ones interviewing like musical stars, which turned into TikTok stars, and from there I produced a couple of viral videos, which I guess we could probably get into with some of the later questions.
But yeah, I produced a couple viral videos with TikTokers, and then, from there I got scouted to then go over to BuzzFeed, and I was a BuzzFeed for almost four years building out their TikTok, which then became just short form as like reels got invented in shorts and Snapchat Spotlight and all that. And then I liked it, eventually, I was never content with BuzzFeed.
I never put myself on camera. And then, on my lunch break, I just started my own TikTok and would like I start off once I start doing, like, trend predictions, like marketing videos. I didn't know that many people cared about marketing, but like, they just went super viral. And, I became known as the trend predictor on TikTok.
And then after a while of that, I was just able to do content full-time. So that's kind of my journey. It kind of happened like I always loved it, but it also happened accidentally. Like, I felt like the stars just kept aligning for me.
Lauren
I feel like sometimes that's the best way, right? Things happen where it's completely unplanned, and everything happens for a reason. But personally, I'm a huge fan of your content, and you're trying. Prediction. Is there anything that you would say, like, as you've been really honing in on those trend predictions, and you think that's really surprising to you?
Coco
Yeah. Oh, that's a good question. I feel like people always ask me like, What? What did I get accurate? But like I love things that do shock me. I need it very fast right now. Like something that I think is shocking to me, but also shocking when I tell people in the marketing world, one trend that we're seeing rise is Gen Alpha.
So they're in like middle school now. They're like the ones under Gen Z. They're obsessed with celebrities who are like avatars. So, like Roblox characters like usernames, like, and the data to back it up is the founder of Famous Birthdays, Evan Britton. He's such a good follower on LinkedIn if you guys follow him.
He always posts about like, what? Names are trending. So like what? TikTokers are getting famous and stuff. But he posted on LinkedIn how Gen Alpha is searching Roblox usernames more than any other. Like there. So some of the profiles on famous birthdays now are like Roblox, like avatars. So like Gen Alpha celebrities, they don't even know what they look like, like it's going to be.
But that was always shocking to me, because I just think it's so interesting that the next wave of celebrities are, like, going to be like Sims characters or like avatars. Like, we might not know what they actually look like.
Kwame
That is super cool. I mean, it's so dynamic the way that social media evolves, right? Like, every different generation has a different way that they look at things, you know, for a long time. For us, as you know, as a millennial, as I was really getting into social media, it was a lot of long form.
People started looking at YouTube. YouTube was the thing to watch, you know, you wouldn't even Google anymore. You would just go to YouTube and look it up. And then it felt like as we progressed, things became more and more short-form. And you saw smaller clips of people, and you know, our attention spans got a little shorter.
We were digesting a lot more information. And now it seems like we're digesting at an even higher digital level, right? Because like, we're removing the person out of it, and now it's like the personality or the brand of the person. And so all these things, all this transformation, is really interesting. And you've obviously seen it on a digital stage, but also you are someone who is, you know, in LA, right?
And so you've seen it in a physical stage as well. How do you see that transformation of this introduction into the influencer era? How did you see it really impact LA in person?
Coco
Yeah, I know, I feel like it's such a unique perspective. Honestly, I feel like a lot of people that I work with move into L.A., and it's kind of rare that you meet people who are like born and raised. And so I think that I'm like a Zolani L. I'm 29 now, so I was kind of on the cusp of that.
So by the time I was in middle school and high school, I felt like YouTubers were somewhat legitimate and like in L.A. already. But what I will say is, as I've become an adult, and I would say obviously Covid impacted this, I actually think that L.A. isn't as central anymore. I don't think it has the same gravitational pull that it did.
Obviously, it's great for collaborations. If you're that type of creator. But like I always tell people, Mr. Beast is the biggest YouTuber in the world. And he never moved out of his hometown in North Carolina. Like, people are like, I'll never make it unless I'm in here or here. And I'm like, no, like, you can, it's so yeah, I think if anything, I feel that obviously I'm LA for life, but I do think that it doesn't have that same pull because anyone can get famous from anywhere, which is a good thing for, you know, diversity on the internet.
And like anyone, I have a chance now.
Lauren
I think that's a very interesting shift to call out, especially now that there are so many other platforms and ways that social media creators are coming about. I think, you know, LinkedIn, Substack, it's not just even video content anymore. It's podcasts all across the board. What would you say is your favorite way to communicate with your audience? Because you're on Substack, you're on TikTok.
How do you feel is the best way to connect with those in your community?
Coco
I would say I love TikTok, and I will not only be sad if it's gone, just because I mean, I don't think it's actually going to be gone, but that's a story for another day. But I feel that TikTok is so good at, like, you post a video and I do think that the algorithm is really good at finding the people that would be interested in that video, and people don't like the way I think of how people use TikTok is it's almost like kind of like Reddit where they don't, just watch a video.
People will watch the video while simultaneously reading comments, whereas with a YouTube video, people might actually put the YouTube video on their TV and never see any of the comments. So TikTok has a very conversational style that I think Instagram and YouTube don't have. It does, but not the same way. Like TikTok's best feature is that the video can keep playing while the comments are in.
Like three-fourths of the videos. You're like scrolling through the comments. So I would say my favorite thing to do is to connect to it because TikTok is basically, I call it the litmus test. If I'm scripting a podcast episode, I'll go to TikTok first. I'll post like 3 or 4 topics, and then I'll see which one people are commenting the most on and which ones are most polarizing.
Like if there's no right or wrong answer. If I feel like there's an interesting gray area to explore, then I'll bring that to the podcast. But TikTok is always the first one that I'll try things with my audience to see where they're at.
Kwame
Yeah, that is so interesting. Like you look, you're throwing out some, some dimes here. I appreciate you're giving us some. It's a free game, so.
Coco
Yeah. Thank you.
Kwame
Yeah. No, I think there's a lot of meaning behind that. And I don't think people really realize what it truly is like. I mean, when I think about content that I can, you can just push out, and engage with people consistently, like I think about, applications or, you know, mediums like TikTok or, I think a really good one that has really, really stuck to, Gen Z is, you know, it started with us and then died down and then has become reinvent the Snapchat.
Yes. You know, yes, Snapchat is huge. You are able to connect with people at such a high level because what I've realized, like, as I, I'm very big and I would say like I'm very focused on Instagram, you know, and I feel like in all honesty, I want to try to, diversify a little bit and focus on other mediums.
And I think so, right before this, funny enough, I was having a conversation with one of the partnership people at Substack. Yeah. And told them that we were about to have a conversation with you as well. You said, yeah, I love her content and all that good stuff. Substack has become a really, really big one.
But all in all, like, there are so many cool mediums that allow you to communicate in so many different ways. And with Snapchat, it's a way to get really, really in-depth talk about your entire day. You can post 200 stories in a day, and someone will make it all the way through them. Whereas, like Instagram, you go over five, and people are skipping, right?
And then you have Substack, which I'm just realizing how elaborate Substack is. You know, you have I always thought I was just like a blogging tool. You know, and it's so much more than you now have, like live videos, you know, you can post your videos, you can have subscriptions. There are so many different levels to it. And so I do think it's really cool meeting your community where it aligns, and you can get really in-depth.
And I think TikTok is one of those where you can just post something because it's on your mind and it's a ten second like, hey, this is something that happened, and people will be like, oh my gosh, this is the greatest thing, and they'll start sending it to everyone. So yeah, I love the ability to communicate that way on TikTok.
Coco
Yes, it's far-reaching. And then the other ones are where you can really dive deep.
Kwame
Yeah, 100%. So I mean, with that being said, obviously, you've seen the evolution of a lot of these social media mediums as they came along. When you initially started out, you were working with, you know, famous birthdays and BuzzFeed. Like, what was your focus at that time in terms of social media?
Coco
Yeah, no. So mine is so unique, like in that I was hired on famous birthdays, to do marketing. But then it was like running their TikTok, which wasn't like a thing back then. I remember when I started the job because it was, this is such a throwback. It was like when videos on TikTok would only be 15 seconds, and they had just rebranded the name from Musically.
So this goes so throwback and like, I remember thinking that I would never get hired anywhere else because if I didn't have Instagram or Twitter or YouTube on my resume, like I was just going to be shut out. And I remember even someone kind of saying to me like, well, TikTok's just like a kid's app. Like, no one's going to take you seriously.
Like, and I, I'm so glad that I stuck with it because I kind of believed in the vision of Evan, the founder, and where he was headed with it. And thank God I did, because, yeah, it was like no other brand that was on TikTok back then, which was called white House and only white House and famous birthdays were the only people interviewing TikTokers.
So our videos were doing numbers on YouTube and stuff because no one else was talking to them, like Charli D'Amelio and Addison Rae at that time. So I've always been on TikTok, but that was kind of my specialty. But I was always very, like, so adamant, though, when I was at my different jobs. And even as I started growing my own socials, I was like, don't call me a TikTok expert because platforms come and go.
And I was like, I don't want to be gone. When TikTok's gone or things trend like, you don't want to be a Tumblr expert or else you'd be out of a job now, like, I'm no fun to Tumblr. I just mean, like, it's not, you know? So I feel that I was really specialized in TikTok, and I got lucky that Instagram, YouTube, and every other platform launched their version of TikTok because I was like the right person at the right place at the right time to lead this big brand into what that was going to look like.
Lauren
The creators that I talked to as well, we always recommend diversifying your platforms because you never know what's going to happen. You know, if there's going to be a law that bans an app, or if something happens and creators and your audience are moving off that app. So what kind of advice would you give to other creators who might be really specialized or really experts at one platform to get them to start touching content on other platforms?
Coco
Yes. I think that obviously the number one thing is like, and I guess that kind of applies to Later, is like so much of making content is not the whimsical creative like, oh my God, I had an epiphany today that I'm going to film. So much of being a content creator is like 90% the boring stuff, like downloading videos, uploading them here, uploading them here, like, you know, tailoring it to different platforms, like blasting your content everywhere.
Which feels tedious, but like you have to do it to grow on other platforms. And then also, I would say this is more what I like, so into astrology, I'm such an Aquarius. But I'm so like, I tell people when they ask me, I get a lot of people that reach out, and they're like, how do I get my foot in the door?
Kind of like what you ended up doing. And I'm like, be the person who's willing to, like, try the new thing first. Like, you're going to fail. You're going to fail so many times. But if it's the new thing, like, that's kind of okay. You're kind of like the cowboy going into the Wild West, and then you're coming back in, like telling them, like what works, what doesn't.
That's kind of why I'm on Substack now. And like, I love their team. I love working with them because, I mean, they've been around for seven years, but they're kind of starting to have their tipping point. So it's not like it's still an app that everyone is figuring out. So like, if I fail and I'm awful at it.
Like, that's okay. Because like, we're all figuring out where the platform is headed. So yeah, I say it's two things. Yeah, it's tedious stuff. Like, you can't always just be whimsical and creative, like that's important, but you have to then take that content and blast it everywhere. And then the Lat, and then like the other thing is just being willing to take risks when no one else is, because that's usually how you push yourself into the new thing before everyone else gets there.
There's like a book called Blue Ocean Strategy that's about that. Yeah, they explain it better.
Kwame
Yeah. Very cool. That is a good way to kind of look at things. I do think, you know, fail fast, fail forward. Yeah. You know what I mean? If you're okay with being the one that messes up, if you're okay with the errors, you're, you know, eventually bound to land on something. And if there isn't much experience around you, there is more.
I'm not saying do it for the whales, but there are essentially more wows when you figure something out. Yeah. You know. Yeah. So it definitely gives a solid basis to it. And you've spoken a lot. You know, we've been talking about what social media is, how you've gotten into it. You know, where you're focusing your energy.
Those things are amazing. But I know for a lot of creators, the conversation then comes to, all right, how do I make a living out of this? Right. And so I guess we'll transition a little bit to that. And, you know, you've worked with later before, which is why I was, you know, very fortunate to get your contact.
And that is, you know, an amazing part about all this, this collaboration through the influencer marketing universe. And you worked on a, you know, a campaign with us, the Instax Google campaign. And so that is just the initial part of it. And I want to talk a little bit about just how that started to unfold, but also just like your overall brand associations and brand partnerships, and outlook.
So let's start with Instax. When was that for you? How did it start, and how did it, you know, end?
Coco
Yeah. No, it's so funny because I had put on my vision board the year before that I really wanted to work with Google Pixel, which was like the duo kind of brand that it was the Instax and like Google Pixel and, I, I think that, that one came about because I had really positioned myself as, like more of an authority in the creator space.
And creators come to me to know what platforms I'm using, what devices I'm using, and things like that. And so, it really kind of aligned, like I always say, like, I don't have the biggest audience, but I have like, your favorite creator, like, probably is in some way paying attention to, if not following me, at least some of the advice, because I talk about marketing.
That's kind of who follows me. And so, that has really helped me land a lot of brand deals, is just the kind of people that are interested in my content. They're the tastemakers. Like I always say, I'm like, I'm not the talented one. Like moving the needle all the time, but like the people that are like, I promise you, they're going to watch my video.
And so that really helped me. Yeah. It was more so just being like an authority in that space that landed that deal. And it's funny because I still have that Instax printer and like the Google Pixel, and I'm at a wedding, and I like making them a scrapbook using the things that I like. I love using it.
Like I make little scrapbooks for people when I go to events using the things that they gave me for that brand deal.
Kwame
Yeah. No, that's super cool. It's funny because I remember, like, maybe, I don't know, maybe I think it was like January or December. So when the conversation initially started, Michaela, who was on our side, who, you know, works with a lot of the partnerships, reached out to me. She's like, yeah, I have this awesome creator I think you should have on the podcast.
Yeah. Right. And she's like.
Yeah. And so, that was when the kind of like the inception of the idea, you know, was, you know, coming to vision and everything was really working itself out. And so once, you know, everything came out, I was like, all right, cool. Connect this again. I started talking to your team. And then, you know, we kind of needed to take a little bit of time and, you know, you were really busy, which, by the way, you know, I do want to talk a little bit about the busy month, right?
Because if you were busy, that means you were doing a lot of work, and we'd love to know what you were focusing on, but keeping up with it. It was really cool to see what that journey was. Me hearing about who you were, you know, this brand partnership coming out, seeing, you know, what it created, and then obviously us getting an opportunity to talk here.
But within that timeline, you had a very busy April. Right? And so I'd love to just give you the floor to talk a little bit about what was going on at that time, what you know, what brand you were working with. If you were allowed to speak to that, you know, what you were focusing on as a creator?
Coco
Yes. No. Yeah. Thank you for that question. I had the craziest April in the best way. My eyes started out because I went to the White Lotus Hotel, which was so insane. I went with HBO Max, and yeah. So yeah, they like, rented out of Four Seasons for like four days, I think. And we got to go there, and like half of the cast was there, so like, you'd be getting like coffee downstairs, like Patrick Schwarzenegger would be getting like coffee as well, you know, like it was insane.
And we got to watch the finale of White Lotus with the cast. And then they came out and, like, did a panel for an hour, and then we had an after party with them, and that was really cool. And then so that was like four days, and that I would say if you're a creator listening and you're like, how do I go to things like that?
Literally just like I always tell people I'm like, be annoying online, post about the show, like tag HBO, be like, hey, sometimes I'll literally just shoot my shot and I'll be like, hey, like, I really want to do this thing. Like, you know, I like, I just like, say what you want to do publicly. And even if it doesn't happen, like there's vulnerability in that, that audience is like.
And then, when it does happen, people will root for you. So yeah, I went to White Lotus and then I went home for a day, did my laundry, and then I went to Coachella. I had my friends, they run, Pop Krave, which is like a really big Twitter account. They'll be like Ariana Grande stuns, like at VMAs or whatever.
Like, they're like Gen Z's version of, like, how they get their news about music artists in. So, they're anonymous, but like, I'm friends with the people that run it. And so they were going to Coachella, and they're like, hey, like, do you want to just come with us? Like, we have extra passes and stuff? And I was like, dude, I'm so down.
So, yeah. So it was a busy month, and it was great, though. Yeah, I feel lucky as a creator that I get to do things like that.
Lauren
I think it's so awesome how you talk about, like, speaking things into existence, like just shooting your shot, putting together a vision board. And it's incredible to see all of that coming true. But I guess, obviously, it sounds like you had an amazing April. Do you have anything that you're manifesting for the rest of the year that's super exciting for you?
Coco
Yeah, well, I guess that what I'm focused on now is that I'm going to Cannes Lions, which is like a marketing convention in June. It's like in the south of France. I went two years ago, actually, I was working at BuzzFeed, and I really loved that job. I stayed for as long as I could, but then the day I quit was on a Friday, like I put in my two weeks.
Then my last day was on a Friday, and Saturday morning I went to LAX and got on a flight to Cannes, which is in the south of France. And so, it's this big marketing convention that's like once a year. And it's like the biggest, like CMO was like, I nerd out about that kind of stuff. Like, that's my Met Gala is like, who did like the, like, McDonald's Super Bowl commercial?
That to me is so interesting. So it's all of these people in the tropical French, French Riviera for a week. And all of the brands bring out like the big guns because they're all kind of trying to, like, impress each other. So like, they have this thing like Pinterest beach and like, you can go and, like, get a tattoo, like it's insane.
Like a real tattoo. It's so insane, and I am so lucky enough that I get to go back this year, and do some panels, and I'll be there for a week, and then I'll just be traveling Europe until July. So, yeah, I'm very excited about that. And then, just more music festivals. I get to go to Outside Lands, with Outside Lands as a creator, this year.
So yeah, it'll be a lot going on, but I always tell myself it's good to be busy, even though I'm stressed.
Kwame
Honestly, it's the truth, and it's funny. So later I will also go to Cannes. Oh my God. Yeah, yeah.
Coco
This is. I'll be there.
Kwame
Oh, 100%. We'll figure everything out. Yeah. We're trying to figure out, like you said, the honesty of the matter is that everyone's trying to impress each other. Yeah, it's it's.
Coco
Very much like, look how cool I am.
Kwame
Yes. Right. And so we have some ideas right now, but we are still trying to figure out how to make them even bigger. So yeah.
Coco
That's the place to do it. Yeah.
Kwame
Yes. So once we do, we'll definitely let you know. I know there are definitely gonna be some creator and brand dinners, you know, so those are the light events where we actually get an opportunity to talk because. Yeah, I mean, it's really cool to be on a helicopter, but you're not doing much marketing and networking, and you got like.
Coco
There's no Wi-Fi connection on a helicopter, and we're just doing it to show off. Yeah.
Kwame
Exactly. Right. And so we're going to do some low-key stuff as well. Okay. So we'll definitely reach out to you about that stuff. And you know, I think you being someone who is speaking at Cannes is actually a pretty big deal, right? Because Cannes is a huge thing. Like you said, when you left BuzzFeed, that was where you wanted to go.
You geek out on CMO. It's a big deal to you for someone to get an opportunity like that. What is that take?
Coco
Oh my God. Yeah. Like, so I got really lucky, but like, I'll give advice on how someone can get something like that. I've always been very lucky in that the people who took me under their wings, like I will say, this industry is also very like who's who, like, who do you know? And I never knew that going into it.
And so I was always really lucky in that my content just struck a chord with the right people who reached out and wanted me to be a part of, you know, their teams. And so when I went the first year, it was like my talent agency. But they manage like hundreds of creators. And I was just so lucky that, like, the people at the top of the agency that year were fans of my content, and they're like, let's bring Coco because she talks about marketing.
So, that was something that I got lucky with. But I will say that if you're a creator and you want to go to these things like one, look at who's going. So other creators like going this year are like Bran Flakes, Girl Boss Town, obsessed with her calling in similar podcasts like Kai San at the streamer. So like, what are they doing?
Look at them. And then also just if you're a creator, like just shoot your shot too, because I think that I basically was just saying, like online, like I want to go again and then, you know, the right people reached out and were like, hey, like, we're planning this, whatever. So I'm just annoyed online. And then it just happens because.
Lauren
I'm like, hi, can I go?
Coco
But honestly, yeah. So just like, if you want to go to these things like one, you also, I will say it's good to be an authority in your space. The reason Bran Flakes is going is because he's a lifestyle creator. But he'll talk about his salary. He'll talk about how he gets brand deals. He'll talk about analytics.
So that puts him as an authority. So if you want to do panels and stuff, you have to kind of be an authority or you have to be the best in your niche, which that example would be like Kaizen out for Twitch streaming.
Kwame
That is amazing. I'm glad that you segue into being an authority, right, because I think that could definitely set us up for a part of the conversation that could, be really important for people to hear, you know, so we don't want to open up your entire, you know, tax bracket and all that good stuff. But we do want to touch on a few things, right?
I mean, for me as a creator, last year was like a so-so year. I think throughout the entire year I think I made like 80,000 as a creator. Oh, right. And then this year, focusing a lot more after having, you know, I would say a lot more content at the end of last year. Also, having the podcast, which showed that I was consistent with my content, had long form, short form, kind of diversifying within my content as well.
I've been really fortunate, like to start this year for the first four months or so. You know, I've signed contracts to hit about 150 K for Q1 already. Wow. Right. So that's massive for me. Right? But there were tiny little changes that I had to make along the way. I had to, you know, stop treating my page as just like a billboard and have to treat it more like, you know, a home for my community.
And then the ads came along, right? It's just it's funny how that thing goes. When you focus less on that, you are almost manifesting it right when you are just living your life, but saying you hope these things come, they end up coming. So I think that was big for me. So I'd love to kind of just open the floor up to you as well and just see what the biggest things are that you had to do to really make changes, to really start receiving opportunities like this.
And then tell us about how much you made on your first brand deal and what you spent it on.
Coco
Oh, okay. That's good. Yeah. I'm like, I'll talk about my first brand deal. I know I'm like, trying how to not be uncouth, but, like, I, I appreciate the transparency, though. I would say that the way that I'm honestly, for me specifically, the most brand deals that I get are there's so much money in like, movies and TV shows, like when I started just making videos where I would react to like, oh, this trailer came out or whatever.
That's where a lot of my brand deals came from. And so that was a change I made. But also, I agree with you, like, one of my favorite quotes is from this show list. So throwback. But like in the first episode, one of the ladies loses her engagement ring on the beach after they get stranded, and one of the guys says to her, he's like, the best way to find something that's lost is to start looking for it.
And so, I kind of agree with that. Like, I probably made usually, people say quarter for like the holidays is when creators make the most money. And I didn't make the most money quarter for like, I was like, what's wrong with me? Like, I'm broke in whatever. And then quarter one, it was like, insane. Like I was like, oh, this is crazy.
And so, yeah, I would say that for me, when I started leaning into entertainment stuff, I know there's so much money in, like, makeup and food, but it's just not really what I do. Like. I'm just, I don't know how, like, I don't know how to cook. I don't really have a desire to learn. So I'm like, I'm leaving so much money on the table, but that's just not me, you know?
So, yeah. But my first brand deal was Urban Decay. It was makeup. So it was a makeup brand. That's funny. That's my first brand deal. I remember being. I think I was in, like, New York City when I posted it, and I think it was like $7,000, which to me at the time was like, oh, my God, this is like three months of working.
And, I think I probably paid off like two credit cards or something. And I was like, financial freedom. So yeah, that was my first brand deal. And then, yeah, that was, I get so, like, awkward when I talk about money, but yeah.
Kwame
Yeah, it's a touchy subject. I think that's one thing that everyone should know. So I've been. This is what I think is our 43rd episode. Wow. Right. And I did not mention anything about the money that I made as a creator until like, our 40th episode.
Coco
Oh my God, we're getting the exclusive on number 43.
Kwame
Nice candid new info, right? It takes a long time, I think, to build that level of comfort, to be able to talk about it, because like speaking about money openly. It's interesting. It is, it's almost taboo. Right. You know, I feel like even when you think about it in a sense of your close circles, right? Yeah.
I have friends that I can talk to about, like great opportunities that I've received. And I know that they'll be excited for me. And then I have friends who are near and dear, and they're, you know, we're all in a group chat. We all love each other, but I can't put how much money I made on something there, because I'm afraid that it'll feel like I'm either showing off or, you know what I mean?
So the money subject is a really tough one. And so you do have to understand there are some interesting ways that people look at it. But ultimately, information and transparency are such a big deal to everyone. And it's just like, I love the people who go around and ask, How much money do you make? What do you do?
You know what I'm saying? Because yeah, it's destigmatizing that and making everyone feel comfortable just being like, okay, this is what I do, what I'm telling you, because maybe when I'm happy about it or two, I want to do better or whatever the case. But here's the information. Do with it what you will.
Coco
Yeah, no, I agree. And I think there's intersectional there too, where I do feel like, not in a bad way, but I, I, I've even had examples where like, like, you know, it's not their fault. Like, no hate them. It's just like white male influencers get paid dummy money for things that I'm like, wait, what?
Like you got like that much money for like. And it's again, not their fault. It's just intersectionalism. It's just different things that are happening. And when people are more transparent, I think it kind of evens the playing field because then people know what to ask for, who might not, who might have been told by society that they aren't supposed to ask for that.
Kwame
Yeah, that is so huge. And you start to realize that, like, as a creator myself, I, you know, I remember doing a deal where, like, I, I remember pushing back and getting like 6500 out of it. Right. And it was like two reels syndicated across my Instagram and my TikTok. And then I talked to another creator friend of mine who does fit the demographic of white male.
And like you said, it's not his fault at all. At all. It just so happened to be what it was. And I think he was making like 14,000 a day, right? Yeah. And so I do think that breaking down the barriers and letting everybody know what's going on within this world is really important. And pushing the needle forward and letting everybody know what they are, what their value is.
Right. Because even in terms of like an audience and following in an engagement, I actually had higher numbers in that sense. Right. Assume. And so it is. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, I think it's important, I think, and I'm you know, I'm glad we're talking about it a little bit. But I also think it is important to protect your peace and protect your privacy and the things that you know matter to you, and make sure that, yeah, you don't give away everything if it'll make you uncomfortable, you know.
Coco
Yeah, I know, because there's that one quote that's like people always think they're either making too much or too little. Like no one's ever liked, I'm going to good amounts. Like, anytime I'm talking to someone, I'm like, this person's either going to think I'm like broke as a joke or like I'm going to be uncouth if I say how much I make.
So I just, yeah, you never know. Like, you know, it's kind of the audience too, I think. Yeah.
Kwame
Yeah.
Lauren
And there's no playbook that is given to creators or anyone in any industry on exactly where you should be making. Like if you're getting underpaid, if you might be getting overpaid, or if you're exactly where you need to be. But I think something that's really challenging, especially in the creator industry, is that sometimes it's hard.
No one wants to be the one to give a number first. I think sometimes it's hard. Sometimes, like you guys were saying with the examples, a brand will come to you. It's like, this is the offer, take it or leave it. But I think a lot of creators, especially early in their content creation journeys, struggle with defining their worth and what to place a real at or a TikTok at.
Do you have any advice for creators who might be struggling to put rates on their content?
Coco
Yeah, so number one, like one of the best pieces of advice I got is obviously this is different scale-wise. But like if you ever feel bad asking for money for a brand deal, what you have to think about is also like you're not quoting them the same amount, but like when a brand decides to go to, you know, ten influencers for a brand deal instead of running a commercial during American Idol, it like you can feel awkward asking them for like $5,000, but think about how much they would have had to charge to do a commercial to pay a director, a writer.
Location, craft services, actors, casting, editing, and syndicating it in the commercial space. That's six figures. And so, yes, you might feel awkward and obviously like, understand kind of your audience and where you think it lies, but like, they're going to influencers because they're cutting those costs when it comes to producing a commercial. And so that was always helpful to me.
And also, obviously, it's not something you can always control. If you're smaller, you have to wait until you find the right team. But having a good height like a manager, I guess some people call them agents, I am a manager. He's so good because he can be a shark in a way that I can't. And he also has other clients.
He knows, based on whatever, like dozens of other people, are getting like, he kind of knows the number. Whereas I might not know what to ask for certain things because I don't have the context of what, you know. Ten other creators made a similar brand deal a week ago. But yeah, so the best advice I ever got was like, don't feel bad quoting something because you have to understand what they would be paying to make a commercial.
And like yours is only going to be like 2% of that. But like it's you're not asking for a lot if you put it in that context.
Kwame
Yeah, I love looking at it that way. I remember, you know, I think creators, we have moments where we struggle with our, you know, maybe our performance on certain campaigns or whatever the case may be. Right. And I had a recent campaign that didn't perform the way that I wanted it to. But I thought about the company that was tied to it and what they usually spend.
Coco
Oh, yeah.
Kwame
And I was. Yeah. Right. Based on their ideal customers, their profile, where they're blasting their stuff, they have Super Bowl commercials, all this, and all that. I know what it costs to put the Super Bowl commercial up. Right. It's not just about all the components that you paid for, but it's also the massive ad space, you know, it's like thinking about that.
It made me feel kind of reinvigorated in the sense of like, hey, like you did it. You put time and consideration into your content. You really planned around it. And sometimes you swing and you hit a home run, and sometimes you swing three times and you strike out, and that's okay. It's a part of life.
It's a part of the journey. It's a part of the creative journey. And so it's okay to understand that you have this value, and whether you're going to hit those numbers all the time. The most important thing is you put your consideration into it, you plan it out, you make sure that you are being actionable about the things that matter and matter to your audience.
And then from there, you have to let the internet do the rest.
Coco
Yes. And that's why those partnership codes exist, like where the brand, if they were really disappointed, like obviously, you have to work it into the contract before. But like that's why they can boost it out to more people. But like if they don't do that either, it's like obviously they think that they got that value from it, regardless.
Yeah. And the internet's forever. So it's like something might not perform well. In the first six months, I've had videos picked up a year later. As long as it's evergreen, it's not like a commercial world to be syndicated for two weeks. Then it comes off or whatever, or billboard, you know, put the next one up. So I always think that too.
I'm like, you know, you're playing the long game as a creator as well, and they're also banking on that as your star rises, their ad placements with you will rise over time.
Kwame
Yeah, you hit the nail on the head. And I think that's so reassuring to a lot of creators. I think that that's a really important thing to note, like, I have had an ad that did pretty well when it came out, and then like a month later, I don't know, someone either found it or I don't know who found it.
I don't know if something popped up on the internet or ended up on Reddit or something, and then all of a sudden, there's so much more. Oh my gosh, I'm scared. Yeah, right. Reddit is the scariest place on earth for creators, by the way. I mean, I know you know this. It's bad. Yeah, yeah, I know I don't even like it if I look up something else and it gives me a Reddit link, I'm still like, no, absolutely not.
Yeah. Absolutely not. So yeah. But with that, I know we've spoken a lot about, you know, social media as a whole, and you've been just so graceful in delivering the messages that you have. You know, I'd love to just talk a little bit more about some of the personal things with you and who you are. You know, just looking at your pages, obviously, some things that you really care about.
And I know during the time of the fires, as an LA native, it was something that was really important to you. And I think I've really, really gained a lot of respect from looking at it because it seemed like you were just pouring all of your heart and soul into making sure that you could spread out your arms and spread out your help as widely as possible.
So, you know, I just wanted to take a moment to say, you know, thank you for that. I think that's really beautiful and really inspirational. But also just give you a quick minute to just talk a little bit about how that journey was and, you know, how it felt going through that, and what you think you were able to accomplish, and how you want to encourage others to use their platform for good.
Coco
Yeah. Oh my gosh, thank you so much. I know when I was reading over the questions, I'm like, why did they do so much research that they even knew that? But yeah, I was so when the LA fires happened, I kind of had a feeling it was going to be bad because we had just never had multiple fires in two locations, kind of closing in on the city.
And yeah, so then I knew people who had lost homes in both places that burned down, and I'd stood in homes that, like, no longer existed. And so that was really hard. And then also the, and I don't think resentment is the right word, but I did feel a little bit of a sting, like seeing.
So obviously I wanted people to flee and get to safety, like I would never be down on someone for that. But I remember being like, seeing all of these craters leave the city and I'm like, damn. Like, I don't have anywhere to go. Like, I can't just get into a fight and leave. Like, this is my home.
Like every generationally, both sides of the family, like everyone's in LA. And so I was like, okay, well, I'm here, so I might as well do something with this. And so I was able to raise, I really didn't want to just do money, too. So I was volunteering, and I was just calling the YMCA in the area, and I'm like, hey, like, do you need anyone today?
So I got to go to a YMCA closest to one of the fires. And then I was posting about it on my social media, and so many people showed up the next morning that before they even opened, they had to turn away dozens of people who lined up around the block just to help, which was really cool.
It was a good problem to have that they didn't need any more help. But, and then in terms of money, like, yeah, I won. I was raising money for a family that I personally knew, whose home I had been in that burned down. And then I was on, I mean, Gen Z, so brilliant. So there was this girl who was posting, and she was going on.
Anyone who was on TikTok was geotagging Altadena or Ulta. Oh my God, I don't know if I'm saying it right, but one of the areas, and she and I had tagged that location, and one of my videos, Raising money. And then I just saw her comment on my thing. She's like, Hi, my grandparents' house burned down. They have a GoFundMe, and she was commenting on everyone's videos.
So I went to her profile. I looked at the link, and there was this older couple; they only had four donations, and then I was the fifth donation. So they were trying to raise money, and they had only raised like $120 I and their goal was 5000. I was like, it's so dystopian that like, your survival is like how viral you can go.
So I just posted a video. Yeah. So I found this, this older couple that only had four donations at the time. And I posted it to my socials, and then my audience raised like $60,000 for them in like 24 hours, which was so cool. The girl was messaging me. She's like, I'm in a grocery store, and we just saw the number going up, and I'm crying, and like, that was really cool.
And then over the span of three different families, we raised like over a hundred and like $30,000, which was really cool. And then I was also volunteering. So the reason I felt about like, strongly, obviously, is like, I just didn't have anywhere to go, like, I was like, I'm in L.A. Like, you know, so many people come here to reap the rewards of being in the city.
But like, when the going gets tough like, I think you also have to help those that need it. And also obviously stay safe. But yeah, that was a long tangent. But yeah.
Lauren
I think it's so incredible. But that was the outlook you took because, like you said, you have to protect yourself. You have to do what's best for you. And it's that you have that option to be able to go somewhere, reconnect with family that might be in a different state. But I think it's so powerful where, you know, you probably could have gone on vacation or just left.
But I think you're such a testament to what social media can be. And it was such an interesting point that you brought up about that, that family where maybe these older couples might not have the social media or know how to use it or have the reach, but, you know, really using your influence to get those kind of donations and really make a change for real people is such a powerful thing.
Coco
Thank you. Yeah, it was cool to see. And also, I just have to add, I know we're getting to and like one other thing about that that was really interesting on the social media side is like, I saw so many people at the time were mad at different brands for going on brand trips at the time.
And I was like, you guys, you're taking away from what I was like being in like boots on the ground, like helping families. I'm like, no one came in to like the YMCA being like, God, I hope that it doesn't go to Bora Bora this week. Like, I was like, you guys like, but like it was an example of like the internet giving attention to something that I didn't think mattered.
Like people were pissed at a makeup brand for, like going on a brand trip that they planned six months ago versus like a family could only raise $80 for donations because, like, everyone was focusing the algorithm on something that I felt was a non-issue. So, but the internet's interesting how it works that way. And just my marketing brain was fascinated at, like, people being mad at something that I felt was taking up space that, like, didn't need to be discussed.
Kwame
Wow. That's a really, really, really important take. I do feel like in times of chaos, people tend to look at external things, which don't really focus on how to solve the problem.
Coco
Yeah, I agree, oh my God, it's so crazy.
Kwame
Yeah. It's frustrating. I do feel like we don't. We have an issue with focusing on the problem because I feel like we get easily distracted. Right. And then it becomes less about what's happening, what we can do about it, more so how we can complain that somebody else isn't doing something about it, or how they waited too long.
It's like when a celebrity donates something, right? And you know, you think you assume they have all this money and they donate, I don't know, $100,000. And then people are like, well, why didn't they donate some money? And it's like, oh, well, why didn't you donate more money? Right. Like so. So it's really a big problem.
I think we have a society. We have difficulty focusing on solving the problem. So, just like complaining about why the problem isn't solved.
Coco
Yes. It's like it's just low-hanging fruit. Like it's like I'm going to go viral for saying the downfall of insert name here versus like, it's not that interesting and viral to be like, hey guys, here's some like links to help families like, you know, people love the juiciness, but like that's like, yeah, like it's it's not it's a non-issue.
But yeah, that was something I realized for the first time, like being boots on the ground or like a disaster. Whereas in the past I might have fallen to being like, yeah, like, get your pick. You know, your pitchforks and like, let's go. Yeah, in the town square, and yell at them. But that was the first time I was like, wait, this is crazy.
Why are you mad at this? Yeah. Sorry. I didn't mean to hide. Yeah, but.
Kwame
No, it's great. I think it's really important. I think it's important to mention. Right. I think the thing that sucks about our societies, we've rewarded negativity more than we have positive. Right? And you are right. Like people are more focused on your likelihood to go viral than they are, on your desire to make an impact. You know what I'm saying?
And so, like, I think that the statistics, I think it's like three times more or so, you're like three times more likely, you have three times more likelihood of going viral. If you do something negative or put something out that people can talk about negatively, then you would if you do something positively. And so we are rewarding the negative negativity and just creating this snowball effect that just keeps going.
And so, it's tough. You can't just like, hope to spread it out into the entire world. But it's all about just taking it on yourself to make sure that you are commenting on more positive things, liking more positive things, and talking about more positive things, because it helps push the positive content forward. Hopefully, it will re-instill in people's minds that maybe I should be more positive.
But with that, I also wanted to speak to what I think is really important. I think as a human race, like I've always thought when people ask like what the meaning of life is for me, my thoughts are always, how can I in some way make an impact in the time that I'm here with the space that I have and what I thought was really powerful about this part of the conversation we're having is like, when you think about the older couple, they've made as much of an impact that they probably could on their family members and the things around them.
But there's a certain bit of context of knowledge that they don't have that's relevant to the times that we're living in. And I thought what was really cool was that you applied the context and the knowledge of what you had in order to impact them as well. So it's almost this beautiful, like a feeder system of life where they've made an impact with what they knew, and you impacted them with what you knew.
So I don't know, beautiful circle of life.
Coco
Yes. And then, eventually, Gen Alpha kids will help us make Roblox. Yeah. It's like we're 80 or something. Yes.
Kwame
Yes, exactly.
Coco
Circle of life.
Kwame
Go. Yeah. Coco, we're about coming up to the end that we've just been yappin' and actually loving when we're yappin', because things are always going well. But, there's just a little segment here where we do a little bit of a quickfire, a little bit of this in that, and so, yeah, I'll ask you this or that.
You answer, you give a tiny bit of context, a sentence or two, and then we'll move on from there. Sounds good to you? Yes. All right. So the first thing, or that is Instagram or TikTok for you, I think you answered.
Coco
Oh yeah, I love TikTok.
Kwame
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And then would you rather prefer a Reel or a carousel?
Coco
Ooh. Like posting. Oh, probably a Reel one because it gets richer right now, they're pushing those out like crazy.
Kwame
Okay. All right. Well, you asked the question. So then I guess in that same vein, a Reel carousel in order of viewing or seeing.
Coco
Oh, as a viewer. Carousel. Yeah. I don't really watch.
Kwame
Transparent. Yeah.
Coco
I like to look at TikTok already, but no. Yeah, I, as a viewer I look at carousels.
Kwame
Yeah, yeah. And then the last one here, I'll give you another quick one, but okay. Would you rather be in a story or on a feed?
Coco
Feed. Yeah. Feed because it's up forever.
Kwame
Yeah, I like that. And then, do you have a favorite quote that you go by at all?
Coco
Yes. It's probably the one I said earlier, I literally quoted. It's like my friend's day at the beach. The best way to find something that's lost is to stop looking for it. I think that's just so good. It applies to social media, too. Like, sometimes your best ideas are the ones that, like, you didn't even realize were an idea.
Kwame
Yeah, I love it. I love it.
Coco
Well, we've all said I love it at the same time.
Kwame
So in sync, so in sync. Well, you know what? We have run up against our time. I want to make sure that Coco gets some time to go back to enjoy her Mexican lifestyle. Yes. Yes. Right. So I wanted to take a moment to say thank you, Coco, for joining us today. I absolutely love the conversation, and it was splendid on all levels.
And I also wanted to take a quick moment to thank you, Lauren, as well, for joining us. I think you were pleasant. You were delightful. You were a great co-host. So hopefully, I can have you hop by and help me again. But thank you, everyone today for joining. I'm going to pause really quickly. So I'm talking over everyone, and I'm going to say, Lauren, do you have any last words for the audience?
Lauren
I would just say there are so many key takeaways from Coco, but I think that last code is so powerful. Whether you're looking on social media to grow your following or just looking for a sign from the universe, I think it'll come to you when you stop looking for it.
Kwame
Lovely. And then, Coco, do you have any last words for our audience?
Coco
Yeah, I would say always try the new thing before everyone else, whether it's Substack or streaming, whatever. Like, just fail and fail before everyone else. So then you have the knowledge when the thing is ready to be front and center.
Kwame
Amazing. Well, with that being said, we're going to call it a wrap. Thank you so much, everyone, for joining us this week on Beyond Influence. We will see you next week. And until then, bye-bye.