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Episode 45

Francesca Murray: From Red Carpets to Runways Around the World

Francesca Murray has carved out a thriving creator career at the intersection of travel, beauty, and culture. With a publicist’s eye for opportunity, she’s landed brand deals and global moments that go beyond follower count. In this episode, Francesca shares why creators should be showing up at Cannes, how to evolve your niche without losing your audience, and the tools she uses (including AI) to stay inspired.

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Transcript

Oops! Our video transcriptions might have a few quirks since they’re hot off the press. Rest assured, the good stuff is all there, even if the occasional typo slips through. Thanks for understanding.

Kwame

Hey, everybody. Welcome to today's episode of Beyond Influence. It is a beautiful Thursday out here in Seattle, and I am very fortunate to be joined by a really awesome creator that I met in Cannes, actually. And, I think it was a cool opportunity for brands to connect, everybody to grow, but also creators meet each other.
So, thank you today for joining us. Francesca Murray. How are you?

Francesca
Yeah, definitely. I was just thinking, wow. This is like, one of the first concrete things to come out of Cannes is I have a podcast interview now with you, which is so cool that, like, those kinds of connections can happen.

Kwame
Yeah, right. I've really, really loved, like, I had a great time. Akin. How was your canned experience? It seemed like you were enjoying it.

Francesca
Oh my God, it was so it was my first time and I really, genuinely didn't know what to expect. Thankfully, I have friends that have been before and so they were giving me tips. But it's still, it's like indescribable the experience that you have there. And I'm actually glad that I went with an open mind and I was thinking about two I so I had applied for like a few different scholarships and fellowships to have it funded.
And those didn't work out. And I just decided to go anyway. And in hindsight, I think I was meant to go on my own terms because then I wasn't tied to a particular activation or anything like that. And I could really, for that first experience, just go where the wind blows, meet someone, hey, what are you doing after this?
And then you just end up, like, at some kind of party with a celebrity performing, or you just really, you never know. So I'm glad that I went with an open mind and a pretty open schedule.

Kwame
Yeah, no, that's a really cool idea, because I think a lot of people do want to go with a brand for the sake of, you know, the financial aspect of it, but there are limitations, you know what I'm saying? So I think especially when it comes to your time, your availability, your flexibility, all the logistics when you go with the ability to just navigate on your own and with a free mind.
I think it definitely adds to the experience in a really cool way. So, I mean, you said that a bunch of your friends had already been like, when did you decide to go to Cannes and how did it all come to fruition?

Francesca
So I decided last year actually, like pretty much right. Pretty much as it was happening last year, I noticed that a lot of social media platforms were present and creators that I follow were there, and I, I had heard of cans because before, before I was a content creator, I was a publicist. So I kind of understand both sides.
So it's something that I had heard of before, but I really thought that Cannes Lions was like really industry high level marketing execs, which it is that that's a big part of it. But to see that they were starting to embrace creators and they had, I think, a, the creator check at Cannes Lions was for the first time last year.
So I said, okay, this is my chance to get in early, be one of the first creators to go and like, show people how I did it. And so that's what motivated me to go, was just seeing that they were starting to kind of open up a little bit about it, about content creators in the creator economy.

Kwame
Yeah, that's super dope. So I mean, let's, let's take it all back. You know, I think when we had our conversation when we first met, you told me a little bit about how your creator's life came together, you know, and I thought it was a really cool story because you had this realization as you were going along within you, just like your life's journey.
You were like, oh my goodness, I'm getting to do really cool things. And obviously, as someone who I think you fit into, you know, micro, creator in terms of overall size, you're starting to realize, like, it really doesn't matter how many followers you have. And I feel like that's something that I really love to consistently, like, talk about and focus on.
Right. And so just, even at a high level, just tell us a little bit about you, your creator background and why you decided to really just jump headfirst into content.

Francesca
Creation, dive in. And I don't mean at a time where it was like, weird to be putting your life on the internet and nobody thought it would ever lead to anything or career. So as I said, I actually have a degree in journalism and PR and so I thought I wanted to be a high level Hollywood publicist, corner office in Hollywood.
And I tried it and I was like, whoa, this looks a lot more glamorous than it actually is. But I had the skill set. So I said, you know what? What if I just take these skills of propping someone else up, basically, and apply them to myself and just try to start a brand with, at the time, blogging.
So I had a travel blog, one girl, one world. It's still one girl, one world across all social platforms. I've expanded now beyond travel, but I think starting in that niche and really like pioneering a niche is how I've been able to come so far in my career without having a whole lot of followers. Like my goal has never been to have a million followers or something like that.
I've always been very relationship oriented. Relationship with my audience, relationship with people who work at brands, so that I could have a real brand, like a like, people know what one girl, one world is. And so yeah, I started as a travel blogger, evolved into an Instagrammer, hesitantly joined TikTok, and have since had like, what's been really cool actually, about going for this and having this career are the unexpected opportunities I've had.
Like, I've now been able to work on red carpets as talent, which is something I never could have imagined. And I remember escorting celebrities on the red carpet, and I had to, like, stand back and try not to be seen as a very behind the scenes person and then to be invited to these opportunities. Like, I went to the Grammys with Google Pixel as a part of Team Pixel, which was crazy.
Never would have thought that that was a possibility. And again, all while being like a micro influencer by definition. Yeah, but your actual influence and like your numbers don't always have. They don't always, I guess, not add up. But you know, like you shouldn't like. Yeah, they don't always correlate like you shouldn't let where you fall in the followers scale dictate the opportunities you can have and how far you can go.

Kwame
Yeah, 100%. I think that that was a really beautiful kind of just immersion of what content creation is, that when it used to be known as influence, you know, I guess like the content creator spectrum or world was more so under the influencer blanket. Everyone always thought about it as like, whoa, influencers are these really far to reach people?
They have millions or hundreds of thousands of followers. I remember when I started following some of my favorite content creators and influencers, you know, five, six, seven years ago. You know, when I first started out, people didn't actually know this. I was, oh, my, my wife was just laughing at my original page. I have a different Instagram page.
Oh I know, yeah, that nobody really knows about, I started it way, way, way back in the day. And I was initially a travel and photography creator. Oh, okay. Yeah, exactly. And, yeah. And I had this whole thing. I remember I ran a contest like, years back, to, like, travel with me because I had all these credit card points.
I had people enter like, it was, I was a travel creator, so creators really were thin, but I was just doing it for fun and not really to gain a following. And so it wasn't something that I was too consistent that I just liked, I was taking pictures, I was putting them out and I was like, I just enjoy doing this.
And so when we think about the evolution of things.

Francesca
Right, I was just like, curiosity, wait, I have to. Yeah. So what made you decide to not just run with the like in and make something new?

Kwame
Yeah. You know what? When I first, you know, started, you know, really growing that platform, I thought about just making that like, almost my photography passion page, you know. And that was originally my, like, original Instagram. So it has all my, like, high school and college photos on it. And I was.

Francesca
So using it personally to like, you know, like okay.

Kwame
Yes. Right. And so when I actually created my new page, my new page was like a way to separate from that a little bit and just kind of focus on, you know, more about, I guess, like two different sides of me, my artistic side, you know, the part that was more curated and then the part that is just like my life I could take a picture of, I don't know, my right hand and put it up, you know what I mean?
So, you know, you have an Insta and a fence.

Francesca
Yeah.

Kwame
Yeah, it just turned out that my finsta ended up becoming my real Insta, once.

Francesca
That's crazy.

Kwame
Yeah, I know, once I get, you know, an actual platform through reality TV, most people found what was at that point my finsta. And now it is my Instagram.

Francesca
So it is what it is. Yeah.

Kwame
But when I was coming through, I was following guys. I remember, like, there was a guy named Eric Rubin, or something like that. There were a lot of those influencers within the photography and art space that I really idolized. And at that point in time they had, you know, three, four, 500,000 followers, and now they're all in the millions because they were the originals.
But at that point in time, no one else was close to that.

Francesca
Right? Yeah. No. People understand, like pre TikTok, it was not normal to have like hundreds of thousands of followers. As a content creator, if you were a celebrity or you had been on reality TV or something like that, then sure, maybe. But like reading TikTok, the expectation was not for you to be viral with millions of views and have hundreds of thousands of followers.
It was just different, especially on a platform like Instagram. So I said that because I feel like people don't really talk about that. Like we've got we've normalized the hyper reach and followers, but that wasn't always how it was.

Kwame
Exactly. And I like that. It's completely a different way of or a different side of what reality is. Are I sorry, but social media. I was talking to somebody just a couple days ago who said my season of love is Blown was the only season that they watched. And I was like, oh, why is that? Like, that's such a random season?
Because, you know, this person's based in New York. And they were like, oh, I like that. So that was the first thing, first time that I had seen the show pop up on TikTok, right?

Francesca
Like,

Kwame
Social media changed the game of what it is to have reach and access, and TikTok was the first one to really create hyper viral ized content for everyone to be like, oh, I just want to go see this, are I, oh, I want to follow this person and so, yeah, it is really interesting seeing how social media has developed.
It was very much so. A very small portion of people who had access to so many things and going viral was not normal. Someone couldn't just put up a video on their Instagram and wake up to a million views, you know? But now that is what it is. So I think it's really cool that now everyone has access to these things and, you know, you have people who are everyday people who have 5000, 10,000 followers who just can put something out and people can all appreciate it and they can even gain a small brand deal from it.
Right. So I think that's really cool. Yeah. But with that being said, you know, you started with this, with this mindset of becoming a travel creator and now you're I feel like you have more of, like, your lifestyle and things as well. Right? You've incorporated who you are. How have you seen that journey? You know, like how did you see yourself transitioning into this everything type of creator and like, where do you see your brand going from here?

Francesca
Big questions. But things that I ask myself often. Yeah. So actually I it was in 2020 during the pandemic and I had already been starting to feel this, that I was not burned out from travel, but that I didn't want it to be my whole identity and to get to like, far pigeonholed and also just to be transparent since we're on a creator podcast, especially at that time, travel creators were like the lowest paid on the totem pole, because you have so many people that are just excited to go somewhere for free.
So already, like, not convincing, but like just setting the tone with brands that know this is work. It's not a vacation. So once I arrive, you're still contracting me for deliverables, etc. like, yeah, it was all of that was tiring. Like when I learned that in other categories, it just wasn't that. It wasn't the same struggle to just get paid decently, etc..
And so I and also at the same time I have other passions too. Beauty, fragrance, entertainment. I wanted to get into hosting. And so, I wanted to kind of pivot a little bit, but I was really scared. And then when the pandemic happened, we couldn't travel at all. I was like, oh, this is kind of like, this is like an excuse to try other things and no one's going to judge me.
I was really afraid of being judged. Yeah, trying to change what I was doing. Yeah. And surprisingly, people actually loved it. They were like, oh, well, I always wonder how you keep your hair natural when you travel. Or I always wondered about how you keep up your skincare routine and things like that. So I was like, okay, so people, people do actually see me as a person.
It was just I was too self-conscious to really try to even, I don't know, play into any of that.

Kwame
So, yeah.

Francesca
Yeah. That was when I pivoted and it worked. And also financially, it was, it was what the other important thing was on that side of things. And so I just became one girl, one world like lifestyle travel is and travel is a part of a lifestyle. I mean, a lot of us, even as you were saying, like to travel and you do photography, like you travel and you travel just to eat like there's it doesn't have to be just one thing.

Kwame
Yeah, yeah. I think you hit a really good spot as a creator when you realize that your niche branches out into other niches, you know, I always say, like the people who have the most loyal following are the people who are their brand within themselves as opposed to something that they do. You know, and I feel like streamers are really streamers have a really big head up already when it comes to engagement and like, community loyalty, right?
When you look at streamers, I always check this out. Streamers. If a streamer has 100,000 followers, they're probably getting 10 to 15, maybe 20,000 likes per post, right? Yeah. Right. 10 to 10 to 20%. Engagement is crazy. It's really hard. Right. But when people see posts from streamers, it's just them acknowledging this person that they talk to, you know, they listen to and they watch all the time.
That person is the brand, right? So they fit into every type of niche. Streamers have a consistent conversation with their community all the time. They're answering right when you are someone who and I'm not saying like, hey, go start, you know, go start a stream. But when you are someone who is on social media on any medium, like when you think about Instagram, your ability to connect with your community is like your bandwidth is based off of you know, how many comments you can respond to or how many messages you can reply to, right?
But when you're a streamer, you basically are replying to your community for your whole bit of content. You know.

Francesca
You're dedicating time.

Kwame
In real time. You have an hour or two hours or whatever, and you are dedicating that to literally connecting with your community, right?

Francesca
So it's yeah, yeah.

Kwame
Yeah, it's really like I feel like the next wave and I mean, it already is the wave. But essentially, as we go forward, I feel like everyone will start to try to make their content more real time and more accessible to their community, basically able to have engaging conversations on the go. Right? And that's, you know, that's kind of becoming the big thing.
So I know personally, streaming is something that I want to start doing pretty soon.

Francesca
Oh, really?

Kwame
Yes, yes I would love.

Francesca
To switch platforms.

Kwame
So I've had this question for a long time. Like which direction do I go. And I was thinking of YouTube or Twitch or Kik or whichever one it would be. And I think I settled on Twitch just because one that has the most, well, YouTube has the most active users right out of all of them, but you can actually monetize directly from your followers on Twitch, whereas YouTube doesn't typically.
And I don't know if that's changed recently, but as of my research, you know, you have the best monetization capability on Twitch when you referenced, like, the size of users, the size of the database of people on Twitch referenced that with how much, you know, people are paying for subscriptions, how quickly and accessible you are in terms of being able to just like said, the tip or whatever.
Right? And it's not all about money. But when I think about it long term, if I want to be in a place where I want to focus on growing a following and being able to be profitable in a year or two years, three years, I just think the best place to go is Twitch. It feels to me like the originator of real streaming.
When you initially thought about streaming, you were like when streaming became a thing and it was cool. It was like Ninja, this guy who played Fortnite, right? And like that was on Twitch, right? So I feel like the originators of streaming really started heavy on Twitch. That's where Twitch streaming became cool. And then everybody else got into it when you think about it, like now, the most followed person, it is, you know, it's speed and Kai's in that.
But like in terms of following and subscription, it's causing that by far because he's on Twitch where I Speed's default account is YouTube. So although he has.

Francesca
The most

Kwame
Yeah. Although he has the most followers, he doesn't necessarily have monetization through the followers. He just gets a lot of really big brand deals. But when you do like the correlation between followers and, and revenue through streaming, it's causing that. Yeah. So yeah.

Francesca
I remember when I found out how many this was a while ago, so maybe it's doubled, tripled or what have you. But yeah, when I first found out about him and they were like, yeah he has X amount of paid subscribers, I was like, well how much is he charging for a subscription? Yeah the math. And I was like, do I need to like getting on top?
But you also it's like, got to be authentic to you to like I yeah, I, I personally wouldn't like just hop on it. Just hop on it. But I think if streaming is something that you're aspiring to do anyway, it definitely makes sense to go with whatever is going to be the most profitable, like potential long term.

Kwame
Yeah, right. And that's the way that I think about it. So yeah, I guess like all this to say, I feel like the best way to really get the most engagement from your community, like, is to be your brand. Right? And then you can branch out from there. Right? It was cool that you found, like you initially started with travel but realized like there's all these other aspects of travel that fit into my life that make me who I am.
And, yeah, introducing those different aspects can bring different parts of my community closer. So I think that's really cool. Now we'll shift a little bit to, I guess, like focusing on how you've had access to all these really cool opportunities. Right? So for the creators who are out there now, who maybe are, you know, losing a bit of faith in actually getting cool opportunities like others and maybe starting to see that there's a bigger saturation because I know this is an area that a lot of people see.
It's like everyone wants to be a creator now, you know it is the thing to do. But what a lot of people don't realize is that, like content creation, it is only getting bigger. If there are more creators, there's going to be more brands seeing the relevance within content creation. Therefore, there's going to be more money allocated to content creators, so the money will only get more as we find more content creators.
We haven't hit. We haven't hit that max yet to where we've plateaued or, you know, starting to go downwards. I still feel like there is a massive incline going upwards. So, obviously a lot of positive things there. And you're doing well. So I'd love it if you could share a little bit about how you get your opportunities, you know, with your following.

Francesca
Yeah. So I, I think really the publicist in me. Yeah. Really. That's why I value relationships so much. And that's me, I didn't realize it until I was like, reflecting on it, it's something that I'm actually very intentional about that I think a lot of creators are not, I think. Yeah. Actually, you know what I will say, I know a lot of creators are not focused on that because most creators dream of having management.
Like, that's like their number one goal, like, oh, I just wish I had a manager so that they could load off, like all of the dealing with clients and brands, etc. and I've always actually been kind of like the opposite, like afraid to get management because then I lose control over those relationships. And I've heard so many horror stories, actually, of creators that have been blackballed, not because the creator is bad, but because this person is representing you and is like the middleman in that relationship, and did something that the brand didn't like.
And so they're just like, if I have to deal with this person to get to this creator, I don't even want to do it. And so that terrifies me. And so, yeah. So I think something that's really helped me to have, like, repeat clients or to just be on the radar and know that I'm not afraid to reach out, not afraid of cynical pitches or to follow up and to not get discouraged when it's not an instant.
Yes. And just to continue to still stay in touch with the person. Maybe add them on LinkedIn because you just genuinely never know. You never know what will come in the future, and you want to just stay top of mind and have people think of you. So, and I think it's more important now than ever because it's so saturated, like back in the day, which is only like five years ago.
Yeah, you could just tag a brand and they would reach out to you like, hey, we saw your story. I would love to send you a refill of this product or hey, we'd love to get your email so we can put you on a campaign. Now, like 50,000 people are tagging them a day, and they just don't even bother.
But yeah, if you get their email and then you say, hey, here's a link to the reel that I made featuring the product, it's a more direct situation. You'll be more memorable. So for me personally, I think that's what has gotten me this far is just, yeah, being human and really wanting to connect with the people behind the brands and the agency.


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Kwame
Yeah. No, I like that. And I think networking and just talking to people has it's I feel like it's such an underrated thing, you know.

Francesca
So I'm saying it's so underrated.

Kwame
People feel like they always have to be this really important business set up in order for something to actually happen, when in actuality, just like saying what's up to someone can change so much. I currently have a brand that is sending me a pair of customized Nike's, right? Yeah, because we were at a social media week, actually, in New York, and I saw these two girls with these really sick, like, pizza, Nike dunks.
And I was like, yo, look, I looked and I was like, those are sick, right? They had, like, really cool colors. And then they had like, like a little picture of pepperonis, like right around the, like the way that it came together, I think they were probably one of the coolest dunks that I'd ever seen.
So I just looked at it, I was like, yo, those are really cool shoes. And so I invited them to a happy hour that we were holding later that day, and that was just like the start of the conversation. And then we chat a little bit at the happy hour as well. And then I think it was like maybe a week later I got an ad on LinkedIn.
And it was just like, hey, Kwami, like really enjoyed the conversation. Glad that you like the shoes. We'd love to get you a pair. Right.

Francesca
I love that, right? Cool. Yeah.

Kwame
Yeah. Super cool. So I'm super excited to get them. But all of that just started from like hey like those are cool. Right? And so I actually have another, I have a hat somewhere in here as well where, I did like a little trivia at social media week and then the brand, and came up to me afterwards and they were like, hey, we're just giving these hats out, to, you know, panelists that we really enjoyed and boom, like, I had the hat and then I funny enough, that same day, there's these people that go around New York and they do like the, hey, like, what are you wearing?
Tell us about what you do. All, yeah, I know you've seen those before. I had it, It was. Tell us about what you do. And you just so happened, and he was like, yeah, I love your fit. Tell me a little bit about it. And it just so happened I had the hat on. So I told him and it was, you know, pretty decent size. It was like, I forget what the exact app was or the exact handle was, but, you know, he had about 600,000 followers, and he's pretty big in New York.

Francesca
Oh, yeah, that's a lot.

Kwame
Yeah. And and boom, right there. You know, I just, I gave the little plug to and, And now and our gets a free plug on that page. So it's just basic relationship building ends up turning into really cool things. So like that's a bit of advice I'd give to any creator is to talk to people.
Right. And that later, we, you know, we have a cohort that we're continuously growing of creators called the later Creator Club. Right. And so, yeah, so we love to have events with them, bring them out. And if these events, they could be either panels or just, like just a happy hour or maybe go to a baseball game or whatever the case, but it's an opportunity for creators to get face to face with brains, you know, and like it might be a learning experience, but it also could just be a networking experience.
You could end up really just connecting and taking it from there. So I say get as much face time with brands and marketers as you possibly can and just go into it with just having a good time and having good intentions and great things could come out of it.

Francesca
You know, I feel like can was a really good example of that. And Ken was actually yeah, me doing that. And I posted a lot of stuff people want to see, like celebrities and Serena Williams and all that. But really the most valuable value for me was talking to people and networking like that was more exciting to me than seeing the celebrities on the quad at or whatever the, the like this stuff is.
And yeah, I go to conferences too, like in the travel space when I was really building my brand and like recognition. I would go and a lot of my travel campaigns came from meeting people in real life and talking to them. Yeah. Yeah, like a lot.

Kwame
Yeah, yeah, that's so cool. I think obviously the pandemic really, really lifted up what our digital presence is and how we connect digitally. And now that we're, you know, we get a lot more in-person opportunities. I do feel like it's now an opportunity for people to bring that digital presence into reality. And so, yes, you could connect with the brand by tagging them.
But, you know, being at as many in-person things as you can is definitely a big game changer. Now, you know, if we were to talk about the opportunities that you've gotten, maybe we'll get a little bit more in depth and talk a bit more about finances. Is that cool with you?

Francesca
Let's see. That's what we're talking about. Yeah.

Kwame
Right. So, I mean, I'll give you an easy one, right? I think for all of us, we have that one big break that we're like, whoa, there's money in this. And, you know, you don't have to give the exact number if you want to. You can, but I guess, like, these are two questions that I really want to ask one, what was your first paid brand deal?
And then, yeah. And then two, what's been your biggest brand deal? And you can give us kind of, you know, a cloudy kind of look at it. If you don't want to get to two specific.

Francesca
Okay. So the first one was definitely like $500. I don't remember what it was for, but it was back in I think 2018. So at the time that was like, wow, this is not bad. And it's yeah, I can't believe someone's willing to give me this kind of money. Like, especially since I really didn't know if it was possible to be paid from making content back then.
It wasn't something everybody was talking about like they do now. And what's funny, actually, just to like, carry on with relationships, building relationships with people was I thought $500 was like, wow, that's exciting. Yeah. And I had lunch with another influencer. And she was so sweet. And so just like open and Frank, she was like, oh yeah, my rate's $1,000.
And it goes up every year. And I was like, oh yeah like $1,000 was a lot back then. Yeah. And pre inflation and everything. And just knowing that like somebody and we had the same exact following she was making double and asking for double. And so I started asking for more. And then I would find out how much other people make.
But I would have never even known that even that much was possible if I wasn't, like having lunch with other creators and building relationships. So yeah, just wanted to, like, put that out there and then. Yeah, the largest, let's say it was five figures, let's say between 10 and 20.

Kwame
Okay. All right. That's, that's a little something to think about.

Francesca
Let's say between 15 and 20. Okay.

Kwame
There we go. We can get a little bit more specific.

Francesca
Yeah. That's why that's better. Yeah.

Kwame
Yeah. And I think I always think like, you know, should say salary transparency. And just like revenue transparency can be helpful. Right? Because I didn't really know what my value was as a creator until I partnered with an agency. And I think it's interesting that you say, like you don't partner with agencies like and I 100% respect that.
And I think that you're doing a great job, you know, kind of within that space and pining and figuring out how you can do it on your own. And I think there's a lot of ways to go about it. When I started, I went right into the agency and then I realized, you know what? I might want to do this by myself for a little bit.
And I tried that as well. And then now I have a little bit that I do myself. And then I also have two nonexclusive agencies that I work with. I initially, and this is the advice that I give to people. If you had the ability to, I'd say, start non-exclusive and just kind of like that way the agency doesn't own your soul.

Francesca
Yeah.

Kwame
Yeah. Because I think that's where the advice is. Yeah, I feel like that's where a lot of people mess up. And, you know, because of that, like whenever anyone or any brand tries to reach out to you and they need to talk to this person, if that person like you said, severs their relationship and then severs the connection to you.
I've had a situation where I had like, it was a 3035 K offer. And someone went and found that for me on a, you know, someone that I worked with for maybe about a month on a non-exclusive set up, but it came from me interacting and tagging the brand, and then, you know, the person saw it and then reached out.
But that 35 K started, as you know, a certain list of deliverables that I actually thought were okay, but the person agency didn't think they were okay. Right? And they were like, they're asking for too much. And I'm like, in all honesty, if someone's giving me 35 K and wants me to show up to one event along with, you know, post some stuff on my page, I'm personally okay with that, right?
I always like to think like, you know, we're like, we're talking about I love the networking aspect of it. I'm happy to go meet the brand, meet the people who created it, and work with them. Right. Like that's really important to me. Like it gives me an opportunity to connect. And they're like, nah, I don't think you should do that.
But next thing you know, we lost out on the contract and total. Right. And that's what I was.

Francesca
All right.

Kwame
So I know that 35 K disappeared. And I think that that was a really important lesson for me. Right. It was all right. There has to be a way for me to have an agency or agencies that I work with, but also be able to represent myself. And that's why I think the nonexclusive was really powerful, because now I make sure that I'm on the threads for the conversations.
Right? Like it's a non-negotiable for me. Right.

Francesca
And that's important. Yeah. Yeah.

Kwame
Right. Because I think it's been good for me to allow the agencies to discuss, you know, rates and budget and things like that. I think that that's actually been helpful for me because I've had brands reach out and offer, you know, let's say for me, I've had a brand reach out and offer 7500. Right. And my agency was able to negotiate the 12,000 where I usually would have probably been like, okay, fine.

Francesca
Yeah.

Kwame
Right. And so there's definitely a cool benefit through it, but I think it really has to be a good, positive relationship. You have to have a great relationship with your, with your agency. And you also have to know a lot about them and how they represent themselves as well. Yeah. Right. So there's a lot that goes.

Francesca
Not sorry when you say non-exclusive. Can you explain that a little bit because actually I've, I don't think I've known anyone who has been able to pull that off with the nation. Yeah.

Kwame
Well basically I think the important thing is like I started out getting brand deals, offers and emails by myself. Right. So it was important to establish to any agency that wanted to work with me that, hey, I can do this without you. I don't necessarily need you. And I also, obviously I'm in the industry, so I have the knowledge to understand how these things work.
And so I had an agency that wanted me to be exclusive, but I knew that every single conversation that I would have and also obviously my, my wife also has her own agency. Right. And so I, you know, thought about the fact that if I was to ever do a brand deal with my wife, my, you know, an exclusive agency would also have access to that conversation and also still get part of that fee.

Francesca
Right? So wow. Okay. Yeah. I see what you mean. Yeah, exactly.

Kwame
So it's really important to think about exclusivity with an agency just means that literally everything that happens has to be run through them. And non exclusivity means that there's still they you basically work on it feels like a U9 situation for them as well. Right. Where it's like you are only involved in the contracts that you are involved in.
You are basically being contracted per brand deal that I do.

Francesca
Oh that's great. Yeah. That's a that's you figured it out. That's no way to go.

Kwame
Yeah 100% I always. Yeah I think that that's the way to go. I think sometimes brands will charge you a little bit more commission to go non-exclusive so that they'll kind of push you to go exclusive. But if I'm, if I'm personally like, if I'm being honest, I would rather give an extra 5% to a brand to not be exclusive because like when I think about my two agencies that I currently work with, not exclusively, both of them have brought me about 50% of my revenue right on each side.
Right. And so, like, they're very even if I was to cut one of them off, I could imagine not having that whole amount. So, hypothetically speaking, if I've made $200,000 this year, both of them have brought in around 100 K, right? Whereas if I was just to go with one, I would still be at that hundred K. So that's that was something that I made sure that I would establish within the conversations that I have is like, hey, based on the kind of conversations that I have, who I am, how often I'm, you know, out in the world in social media, how often I'm, you know, at conferences and things.
I'm going to get offers, I'm going to get emails, I'm going to get conversations, and y'all are allowed to work these conversations. But I decide who's working what. And so it worked.

Francesca
It's worked out for me so far. Yeah. So you just kind of kick over your like each conversation you choose to whichever.

Kwame
Yeah. You know I think there's a few ways that I kind of factor in and think about it. But ultimately I have, you know, a brand that I work with, I feel like on larger scale deals, where it's going to be maybe long term partnerships. And then I have another one that I feel like is really good with negotiating contracts that come in small.
Right. And so that's kind of how I look at it. And I also like that they have two very, very distinct images as agencies. And I feel like that works for me. Right. I have one that has a very, cultural, like very, you know, Bipoc focused, outlook on the way that, you know, they hand in it's not it's not, kind of an exclusive thing where, like, you can't be within the agency if you're not a Bipoc creator.
But it started within those roots, right? And so a lot of the calls. Yeah, a lot of the cool things and activities I get to do with them involve me getting an opportunity to meet with other, you know, black creators or Latin creators or things like that. And I think that forming a community within any aspect of it is really important.
Right? When I went to Cannes, I met other Ghanaian creators, and I was like, I'd never met other Ghanaian content creators.

Francesca
You know what I'm.

Kwame
Saying? And I thought that was really cool. And then I have another agency, which they're very flashy. They have very large talents. Right? Like they have talent out there that has 3 million, 4 million, 5 million, you know, k followers, or, you know, 5 million followers on social platforms. And so they kind of like they look at things a little bit differently than my other agency would.
And I respect both of them in a way. And so I know what kind of conversations I think make sense for them. And it's been working really, really well. And I and they both understand how that relationship goes. I keep it very transparent. I like it.

Francesca
Hey, awesome.

Kwame
Yeah. I'm like, hey, this is what I do with you guys. And this is what I do with you guys. And I want you both to know that and I hope that's okay.

Francesca
I love that. So now I'm like, I'm gonna keep that in mind. Now I know what else is possible. I never would have thought they had non-exclusive agents.

Kwame
So yeah. Yeah. And I think most agencies like I said, we'll try to push against that because they want to make sure that, the growth path with you is something that like, you're harnessing and as you are growing and as you are working on your brand, they're reaping the benefits as well, and they're helping you. And I think that makes a lot of sense.
But within my category of creator, which is social celebrity like the way that we grow is a little bit different from a niche creator.

Francesca
Right? Yeah. That makes sense. Yeah.

Kwame
Yeah. You know what I'm saying? So I'm basically going to grow on my own terms. It feels like as opposed to someone who is specific within their niche and growing their audience based on what they do. And so, yeah, kind of just explaining that to both of them, it ended up working out. So yeah, I think it's very achievable.
And if you'd ever love to talk to either the brains or sorry, either the agencies that I work with, you know, I'd be happy to introduce you, you know, it's always good to have a conversation and see how it goes and then decide from there.

Francesca
Yeah. All about. Yeah. You just do everything. A conversation doesn't have to be more than that, right? Yeah.

Kwame
Exactly. And I think, like, that's the cool thing about it with the, you know, with both agencies that I have especially like, like I said, with the, more cultural like agency that I have a lot of this stuff like is just networking and experiences, you know what I'm saying? And so like, hey, like, let's just connect for the sake of if you, if we're in this same place, these cool things like, you know, they all went to Essence Fest together, right?
Like and what I thought was really cool. When we were in Cannes, they did a meeting, like a little event with Black Girl Digital, right. And so.

Francesca
Yeah, right. I went to that really.

Kwame
So my, my one agency society 18. Have you ever heard of them?

Francesca
Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

Kwame
Exactly. Yeah. Yes.

Francesca
Because I know everybody.

Kwame
Exactly.

Francesca
Right.

Kwame
And they've been a fantastic agency. But yeah, I mean, it's literally just like, even if I wasn't working with them at a higher capacity, like Pam just always sends me stuff and it's like, hey, I'm going to be here. This is going to happen. You should be gone, you know? So I think the networking of it all is really cool and like knowing some agencies, knowing what they're out there, what they're doing.
And, you know, you're really good at finding these things yourself. If you ever decide to, like, branch off into agencies to, like, understand and just build your network but still do your own thing, like there's so many there that you could talk to, you know?

Francesca
Yeah, I think, I mean, at some point I will. It's definitely not something I don't want to negotiate my own deals and everything for the rest of my life, but definitely in the building stages. That's something that's been important to me, and I think it's been good, too, because now I understand pretty thoroughly, yeah, how things are supposed to work.
And so I can hand it off to someone now and be able to recognize if something's not making sense. Not. And yeah, yeah, if I'm on an email chain and it's looking like things are going in the wrong direction, like I can now know yeah, what that looks like.

Kwame
So yeah. Yeah. No, that's great. I think you've got a great handle on it. I mean, with that being said, obviously we've talked a lot about a lot of the things that go into content creation. But, you know, I think I'd love to dive, you know, as we kind of round this out into your process just a little bit, right?
As a creator, how do you come up with your content? Are you somebody who loves to look at a trend and maybe join in, or do you think that you're someone right? How do you go about it?

Francesca
I wish I could be like one of those trend hoppers because it really works for some people. Yeah, but it's harder than it looks anytime I try to, like, hop on a trend real quick. I realized really quickly, like, oh, this is not it's not as cute and easy as it looks, even if it's only a few seconds.
So, I would say I'm not so much that I really am a storyteller. And so a lot of my ideas for content just come to me. And as far as process now, I use ChatGPT to help me really organize everything, because that's what I've always struggled with, and even to the point of like not getting an assistant, even though at times I know I could really use it.
I'm not even organized. I haven't even been organized enough to be able to, like, tell somebody what they can do to help me. And so ChatGPT has been an amazing resource because you can just spit like everything at it and it will really like even for can. I came back with like so many ideas, like 20 ideas, just fed it everything and it's got it organized in a chart.
What have I filmed already? What have I not filmed? How can I take this concept and apply it to my tone of voice on LinkedIn versus Instagram versus it? TikTok caption. Yeah. So that's been a huge, huge help in my process. Yeah. Instead of creating content, it's not like it's going to create it for me. It's. Yeah.

Francesca
Because I think a lot of people are still scared that AI is going to replace the creator. I don't know, that's a whole other topic. But yeah, in this case, it's really just an assistant.

Kwame
Yeah, yeah, for sure. I think the tagline that I always think about is like and even when we, paired with like marketers or whatever, and now you compare it to creators, like, it's like AI is not going to take your job, but someone using I will write and I yeah, you know, I think.

Francesca
I, I yeah.

Kwame
Yeah, I think it's there too, to help us a lot but I don't think it's there so it can not make those decisions unless you give it the data to do so. Yeah. So now I think that's really cool. But you know I think we're coming up to kind of the end of this. We've actually gone past, I think what the allotted time was.
But I think we're having a good conversation. So, you know, we're going to end it off with a couple little, this or that moments. Right? We're going to give you a little bit of rapid fire, and you let us know a little bit about why you make your choices. So this is the way that it goes.
Let's just say I say Instagram or TikTok. You give me, you know, TikTok. Can you give me just one sentence about why you picked it? Does that sound like a good idea to you?

Francesca
Okay, yeah, let's do it.

Kwame
So we're going to start off with that question exactly, Instagram or TikTok.

Francesca
Or Instagram, because I still don't know if TikTok is going to get banned or not. I feel like I'm the only person still worried about that. But yeah. Yeah.

Kwame
Yeah. No, I'm with you. And it definitely shows in the ways that brands are paying out because they feel like Instagram is a forever tool. Right. And so now they'll always have their ad up. But with TikTok it might fade away in a year or so. So, with that being said, would you rather do reels or create carousels?

Francesca
As an OG Instagrammer, I'm going to say carousels. I love photos.

Kwame
Yeah. All right. Well, when it comes to brand deals, would you rather do a short term or a long term?

Francesca
Ooh. Everybody says long term because of the money, which is fair. But I also see the value. Okay. It's supposed to be rapid fire. One answer.

Kwame
No. It's okay. Good.

Francesca
Let it all out. But, I was going to say, but one thing about short term is you get to see if it's a fit, and then if it is a fit, then you can go longterm. Yeah.

Kwame
I like that answer a lot. So last question for you, what's your dream brand partnership. And this way you can go into it as much as you want.

Francesca
Oh okay. So I am obsessed with perfume. There's this fancy French perfume house called Guerlain and it's, and my dream would be to, like, go see the factory, talk to the perfumers, and then go to the south of France. Yeah, the flowers and smell and maybe do like a documentary that that's. It's so random. Like, I feel like I'm probably the only person who would say that, but yeah, that's like my dream.

Kwame
Okay, that's really cool. So I mean, in terms of the rapid fire, I think that we're good there. But before we do end, you know, I'd love to know where you think content creation is going as a whole. And ideally for you, what's your next big milestone?

Francesca
Oh, okay. So for me, my next big milestone, actually, I'm building creators at Cannes right now. So I started a community and blueprint like a guide to Cannes for content creators pretty much immediately after Cannes Lions. Yeah, I really enjoyed the event and I see the potential for it to grow into this hub for content creators in the future.
So yeah, trying to pioneer that right now, so that's a big priority. And then the future of content creation. Wow. I mean, I think what's kind of exciting about it is that it's getting so broad, like you're interested in going into Twitch. Meanwhile, like, I don't watch Twitch at all. Okay. So people are like, millionaires on there, Substack, TikTok threads, like, you name it, I think.
I think we're going to move away from being like a star, a one platform star into just however you like to consume content, like those are the people that you're going to rock with.

Kwame
Yeah, that's, that's a really good answer. Obviously, I, you know, I think one of the questions we ask at some point is the emerging platforms. And you know, you mentioned like Substack, I think that's a really cool one. And yeah, I think Substack is so much more unique and interesting and multifaceted than a lot of people know.
So I think that's a cool platform to check out. But, with that being said, Francesca, I think we're just about at our end. I mean, I know I've asked you a ton of questions, but to leave you with just one thing. I mean, like, what would you like to leave our audience with? Do you have any, you know, either quote or an idea or a final thought?

Kwame
How would you want to leave your last impression with Ryan?

Francesca
Follow me well and grow a little more. And no shame in the game's social media platforms. I love that.

Kwame
Honestly, that's a great way to do it. Always be promoting. Always be promoting. So yes. Francesca, thank you so much for joining us today. I really enjoyed the conversation. Obviously we went to a whole lot of interesting things. So, we appreciate you. And I know that the audience is really going to love the conversation. So, yeah, we were excited to have you.
Thank you so much. And, to the rest of our audience, thank you for tuning in. I hope you enjoyed the conversation today.

Francesca
And so thank you for having me.

Kwame
Yeah. For sure. Bye bye.

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