Transcript
Kwame
Hello, everybody. Welcome to today's episode of Beyond Influence. I'm Kwame Appiah here with my co-host Scott. And after a plethora of troubleshooting, we are finally getting started. So it's an exciting Monday. We are very honored to have with us a Globetrotter, a, very, very well esteemed influencer who has done so much for herself. Thank you for joining us today, Gabby Beckford.
Gabby
Hi. So happy to be here. Yes, I'm happy to be here, literally in New York City, where I can say yes and be available to be on this podcast. So, yeah, thanks for having me.
Kwame
Yeah. For sure. I know you were. You were traveling the last time that we talked, going over to your families. And I know throughout us, you know, the process of meeting and getting to this point, you moved to New York. And then you went to your families as well. So that's like, how's the last year been? Did you, like, move to New York from your family or somewhere else? Like, what's the journey been?
Gabby
That's a good question. And it's so funny that you're like, you were traveling when we were talking. I was like, no, I was, and I was in DC. Because traveling to me means like Poland or China and I'm like, no, that was just a three-hour train ride. That's like a commute. That's fine. Yeah. So I think we met in person at a conference here in New York, and I had not moved here yet. You're right. So I moved here in April, and since then I've been to 4 or 5 more countries. I went to like four right before we met, and I technically had just come back from a trip to DC with my family. So, before I moved here to New York City, I was traveling full-time for three years before that. So 2021, 2022, and 2023 were a completely full-time travel digital nomad. Like, where's your home base now? Nowhere in the Caribbean. That's it. So this has definitely been a fun transition, but a transition like a slow-down period for me.
Scott
That's awesome. It's funny, I saw your post. I think it was like your dad with a leaf blower or something. Yeah. And it's funny because, like, we'll dive into all the travel, but you made this comment and it was like I realized that him wanting me to come outside and do yard work was just, he wants to do his normal stuff but be around people. And this you call it like parallel play? Yeah. I was like, I've been trying to define this my whole life because I'm like, I just want to do my thing, but like, be around other people. Like, we don't all need to go do something crazy, but it's like just spending time together, like in the presence of other humans, like you are on your phone, I'll be doing a puzzle. Like, whatever. It's like the old, like, beach house is a kid thing. Like we're all doing five different things, but we're, like, in a common space. I don't know if that one resonated. A lot with me.
Gabby
I'm glad. Yeah. That's so funny. That's definitely my dad. I feel like why? I'm. I'm on. I'm reading a book. Why are you forcing me to be in your room? And he's just like me. I'm thinking I'm.
Scott
Being the moment. We're having a moment.
Gabby
We're having a moment.
Scott
So all the travel I had to ask, like, how? How did you get started with the travel bug with the digital nomad lifestyle? It's just so interesting. And I think for a lot of us, it just seems like this crazy thing that we can never do or we can never embark on. And I'm like, what gave you the confidence and the inspiration to just go out and get started?
Gabby
Yeah, I always say the biggest barrier to travel is really exposure. It's like, you can't imagine yourself doing something until you have a friend that does it, or you see someone who is an influencer or a celebrity or whatever. So for me, it was definitely my parents who brought it back to my dad. He was in the military. My mom was a travel agent growing up, so she just talked about the world in a way that never made it seem scary or small. She would talk about her study abroad experience in high school in France, which was like a semester, or my dad would talk about being deployed or things like that, and then we traveled with my parents because of their work. So I really think that my parents set me up for success just by my baseline being that travel's not scary. It was never, oh, you know, they don't speak the same language we care for or, you know, it's kind of dangerous in that part of the world. I just never had any of that. So when I decided I wanted to start traveling, they gave me, you know, the safety spiel of being a woman or being young or being Black. But it never goes away. And I think that set me up for a lot of success and like, risk-taking in my life.
Scott
I love that it is super funny because I remember I didn't travel a lot as a kid growing up like we did, like beach trips, mountain trips, just like not anywhere really exotic. And I got sent to China on a business trip and like, what was China like expecting? And I was like, I don't know, it's kind of like Portland with Chinese writing and different people. Like, it's like all the same infrastructure, like they have roads and cars.
Gabby
With the baby like they are.
Scott
Two. Yeah. And it's like not to minimize cultural diversity. And it's like, yes, the people look different. They speak a different language. But I think the more that I came to experience different places, there's nuance that makes the experience rich. But it's not like you're going there are genuine places where it's like, this is a very, very different experience. Yeah. Like being in rural India, like it is slightly different or like, you know, going to certain places. But if you're in Beijing, it's like it's a lot of the same modern amenities that you're going to have anywhere else. It's just a different cultural, different experience. Yeah. So I love that encouragement for folks not to be scared to get out there, like experiencing the world.
Gabby
Yeah, I think especially being American, we have a lot of diversity in lifestyle here that I think we assume is normal and take for granted. Like, I know the shock that I would feel going to rural India, I might feel in rural Indiana, like it's just really the difference in lifestyle, right? It's not necessarily something that only happens in India, which could be true too, but that's much rarer than it is just something that you have never experienced in your lifestyle before. So yeah, I think I try to encourage people to like the things that also surprise you, like the infrastructure change, like you said, or, you know, walkability and moving to New York. I'm like, everything's walkable, it’s not necessarily that it only happens in the US. It's just like a different way of life, like you have to be open-minded towards it.
Kwame
Yeah, we're all different, but we're all the same.
Gabby
Now and more of the same. The difference. You go over there and you're like, wait, someone. Someone's yelling at you for crossing the road. And I'm like, This is New York. I feel like I'm more of the same.
Kwame
Yeah. No. That's funny. So I mean, obviously you have kind of, you know, gone through this process and really, really earned your way towards, like becoming a solo traveler and understanding and then sharing that, sharing that journey. But as you were growing up, what, like, you know, you always knew you wanted to travel, but maybe you didn't know that was going to be your life. Right. What did you want to be as you were, as you were growing up?
Gabby
That's such a good question. I viscerally remember I grew up in the CSI era, whatever that was on TV. My parents were watching that. So I wanted to be a forensic anthropologist. And then I found out what they did, and I was like, oh, ill, what? No, no, I thought you were on TV. I want to be an actress. No, no. But then I wanted to be a doctor. And then when I got into college, I wanted to be an engineer. So that's when I started college as an engineer. And to be honest, that was to bring it back to my dad again. The first generation was doctors, lawyers, and engineers. We're like, the only ideas I had were like an even possibility. So I chose to be an engineer because of that. And that quickly changed due to exposure once I got into college.
Scott
I love that. It's so interesting looking at kind of the background being like in the hardcore data side to going out and experiencing all of life and traveling and creating content like one would think that is feel like very disconnected. But I'm curious how like your personality, how do you feel like you blend that, like engineering side, but then like the love of life and exploring, a lot of people, like, they might see someone in, like, the creative arts or something like being more akin to travel, less like someone who's in data engineering.
Gabby
Yeah, I remember, I mean, my dad growing up was always like, be creative, have hobbies, do what you want, but like get a job that pays well so you have a home. So I would work as a means to live a life. Like they were very separate and I really didn't get the idea that they could be combined. Like, you could love your job. Until I got exposed to other ideas in college. And so I feel like what has bridged the gap or bridge between both of those two things for me is that I've always been a manifester. I've always had a vision. I've always loved knowing why things work and how I can, like, kind of create things out of nothing. And so I loved that as an engineer, and I love that as a creator too. Actually, that is the same technically or, I don't know, creatively. So yeah, I really feel like I flex that muscle. I flex that muscle every day now. And now I just get to have more input in a different part of the funnel. Like when I was a data person, it was like decision-making. And are we going to create that or not? And I just kind of moved down to like, I've had an idea, now I can bring it to life myself. Yeah.
Kwame
Yeah. I mean, I think they live to work or work to live, kind of the mentalities. It is really interesting having a real realization in between both of those things. Now, I will say the downside of the era that we're in, in society is that most people are constantly, especially when it comes to everyone wanting to somehow be partially a creator. Or yeah, you know, or maybe full-time creator. I will say a lot of people always have their minds on it. They're always awake. They're always thinking about, like, what's my next piece of content? You know? So I do think that when it comes to being a creator, that is a boundary that we have to create for ourselves. But overall, the work-to-live mentality is always the side that I think we should all be striving for. Right is like, you get what you need and then you go enjoy your life. And you know, some people I think are really great at finding a way to not blur the boundary too much. And that is a structure that I think we should all try to learn. But with that being said, when did you finally get to a place where you were like you were traveling, you were moving around and you were like, wow, like, I could do this for a living.
Gabby
Okay, so here's what happened. When I was in college, I studied abroad for a year in Dubai on a scholarship. And so I was still in college, but I was in a different city like Dubai. And I saw Digital Nomads for the first time Digital Nomads. I saw entrepreneurship in that fashion, like young people owning companies and having multiple home bases and that, like, blew my mind. So I came back and went back to my plan, which was to work for a government contractor and work in a basement without my phone, for the next 20 years of my life. And I was like, oh my God, wait wait wait wait wait wait. Like once I knew there was another option. I was like, oh, I definitely cannot do that. Actually. I'll die. So I went into the engineering job that I had set up after graduation, and I worked there for two years, all the while growing my platform on the side. And so I was working full time when I quit that job to travel full time. But the timing was not that great. The pandemic hit about a week later, and I ended up not traveling full-time after I quit that job until 2021 the next year. So I was like in the trenches working full time. And it was very motivating to be working in a job that wasn't bad, but it just wasn't the lifestyle I wanted. To your point, I was working, I was living to work. I was commuting 3 or 4 hours a day in DMV traffic and working in a government facility. I couldn't have my phone. I couldn't be creative in any way. I was in a building with no windows. Like, that's how the job is. That was my day-to-day life. And I remember coming out of the office building in time, like right now and December, and it was dark when I went in and dark when I came out. And I remember the name, I remember thinking, I am too young to live like this. And that's when I knew I had to, like, really get serious about going full-time in entrepreneurship and like, making my own way.
Scott
Have you ever heard of the AT&T Long Lines building in New York?
Gabby
No.
Scott
So look it up sometime. It is just cement.
Gabby
Building, jail looking one.
Scott
Yeah, it's like it's 33 Thomas Street, but we walk past that, we're back in the city and I'm. It just looks exactly like everything you're talking about where it's like a skyscraper with no windows and it's actually like where all the lines in the switches used to be for the telephone system. But it's like if you imagine just people locked in a cement bunker, I'm like, this gives off like Secret Service, middle of the city. No windows vibes. And that's where I'm imagining you were working.
Gabby
No, that's exactly what you should imagine. That was. And that's not far off, except it was in Nowheresville, Maryland. So it's even worse. I can't even walk to a deli afterwards.
Scott
That's funny. Talking of Dubai, it's super interesting. And, I don't know, I imagine you had a similar experience based on you, you know, talking about inception, a lot of your inspiration coming from that time. But I, you know, I remember visiting Dubai. It is so young and international because there are so many people trying to, they're there as expats. They're working to try and create something. And an interesting part of the whole UAE thing is like, you're only allowed to come in and then immediately leave. And so you have to be doing something and trying to create something. And so it's interesting, like I felt just like really motivated, inspired because one, the vision of the city, everything they've accomplished in such a short period of time, and then the vibe of just everyone's trying to hustle and create and do something, they're all they've left their homes and they're, they're trying to create some different international business. It's just a really inspirational spot to be. I don't know if you felt that, but 100%.
Gabby
No, that's exactly what I felt. Now living in New York, I see a lot of crossover in the energies between New York and Dubai, except Dubai's in a region of the world that I had never been to or imagined. And so when you think about, like the tech hubs in the world, China, India, even in Africa, all of them are like they're New York or Dubai. So being in Dubai and being like, oh my God. Just like when I was in Dubai, the weekends were Friday and Saturday and Sunday was Monday. And so just literally shifting my mind on like, what does a workday mean? And what is work-life balance meaning like, I don't know, like Dubai culture of taking someone out to a work lunch in Dubai is different from the US. Like it just blew my mind. And I remember just leaving there thinking what I think is true is not true for everybody. And so what I think I have to do, or what I think is possible for me also probably isn't true. That's as true as I think it is. So like, imagine what I just cannot. I was thinking, imagine what I can't imagine right now. And that just opened up a world of possibilities and I need to start taking some risks. I need to start googling stuff and start talking to people and expanding my world because there are things out there that I don't even know I want, but I don't even know how to ask for them. So yeah, that just inspired me so much. That has to be the word that blew my mind.
Kwame
Yeah. You know, I think people’s surroundings create significantly more impact on them than most of them know. I'll tell you this. Like when I came back from my, you know, tour in Europe of really trying to play soccer and, you know, got to a point where I just didn't see it as a possibility for my future. I remember I had an opportunity to move to, like, Center City DC to really, really start my career. And I had two options. One of the options was, I was going to move in with kind of just like a younger couple. And they were cool, and they were like, hey, we just have a third, you know, room and like, you can move in there. And I really wanted that one because it was a walk from my job. Right. Whereas on the other side, thinking about DC, I would move in with these three younger guys who are all real hustlers. But I would have to drive to work. And so I was like, I was really, really, really praying for the walk-to-work option.
And it's really funny because when I first got the drive-to-work option, I was so unhappy about it, I was like, dang, I'm gonna have to get in my car every morning. I'm gonna have to pay for parking. Yeah, you know what I mean? Like, there's so much in it. But ultimately, when I moved in with those guys, my life changed in such a big way, right? One of the guys was a real estate agent who actually owned the house that we were living in. Another one of them was kind of in private equity. He now lives in New York full-time. And another one of them was, like, head of business development at the time. So these were very, very driven people.
And when I got into this place, I was like, wait a second. They're all like, they're all my age. They know these things. These are the things that they want to do. They're really focused. And I think that was one of the biggest catalysts for what my mind and direction and what I thought my limiting capabilities were, is being surrounded by people who are just like, oh my goodness, they're really out here doing everything that they want to do. And they're still great friends still today. But surrounding yourself around the right people who want, you know, greater things for themselves, who have not set a limit for themselves, you know, in terms of upward motion, is a really, really important thing. If I could give anyone advice in life, it's to surround yourself with people who inspire you.
But with that in mind, as you were coming up in your journey earlier on, did you have a mentor or anybody that you were looking up to or friends that you were aspiring to, you know, help them and get to that part of their journey?
Gabby
Yeah, I think what is so special about the way I grew up, which could be seen as a pro and con, but because I'm me, I made it a pro was that I traveled so much. Like I probably don't have friends to this day. My longest friendship to this day is probably someone I met in high school or middle school. Like I don’t have childhood friends from five years old, right? Like I was moving too much. But that made me chronically online. And so when I think about, like, the mentors I had or the people who inspired me or, like, gave me permission to think differently, it was people online. It was bloggers. It was the OG YouTubers. Yeah, it was TV shows. I definitely grew up watching TV and movies.
But definitely I’m the person who, you just give me an inch or give me inspiration and I can—that’s all I need. I can take it from there. And so I would say mostly it was online people. My dad definitely was a mentor to me. My mom too. But when I think of mentorship in—yeah, no, honestly, like my mom, if my mom was here, she’d be like, she would be pushing me all the way to tell you right now that I have not been the type to, to, I guess, seek exact coordinates or like a map of how to do something. You give me the destination and I just, like, kind of bulldoze my way through it. I'm like, I will figure it out myself. I’ll trial and error myself to death.
I remember in high school, I was like—my dad was like, what are you gonna do about college? Like college debt, you know, college debt statistics? I was like, oh, okay. And I just applied to 200 scholarships and I just, like, killed myself doing it because I’m like, I will just brute force it. And then I graduated debt-free. So, yeah, I think I luckily, I was kind of born with discipline, and I just need a few sparks of inspiration to, like, get me moving.
Scott
That's awesome. I love that kind of finding—it feels somehow symbolic of you, like finding your way through college and scholarships and now kind of exploring. I think one thing that we hit on, that I constantly feel is this interesting, like a product of surroundings or the way that you are somehow you, but somehow also different, being surrounded by different cultures or different surroundings.
Like me, I’ve talked about it. I was in Mexico living there trying to open a factory for a car manufacturer. And it was really interesting because my personality was totally different because I had to speak Spanish. Rather than being outspoken and the loudest in the room, I was the person who intently focused on what everyone was saying and then added my choice words. And I was like, you listened so well, and no one in America ever says that about me.
Gabby
I haven’t gotten a quiet label, yeah.
Scott
Yeah, they were like, you know. But it’s funny because just being in that culture, you know, it shaped a different version of who I am and how I express myself in that culture with that language. And I think it’s an interesting way, like, we don’t have to change as humans, and I’m still going to have my core, but you see a different expression of yourself. You learn to appreciate different things in a different context.
And I think one takeaway of that too, is I always laugh when like, you cross a land border and you’re like, this is so arbitrary.
Gabby
Yeah, it looks the same. You’re like, yeah.
Scott
Or like, I’m in Malaysia, and now I’m in like, whatever. And I’m like, you could have redrawn the line and now none of this stuff—the flags and the tax codes and all this stuff—matters anymore. And so it just—it’s really interesting when we get into these really like nationalistic debates. Like when I cross to Vancouver, BC, I’m like, really? Like, there are cultural differences, like hockey. But if you extend the border like 100 miles more, Seattle would like hockey a lot more just because.
So I think there’s a lot of interesting things to say, like, how much divide have we created for ourselves? Versus truly exists or needs to exist. And that’s not to minimize cultural nuance and appreciate your country and what you’re a part of. But I think we create bigger boundaries than are necessary between ourselves.
Gabby
100%. Yeah. I think I really agree with that, especially in that reinventing yourself was like the ability to reinvent yourself in different countries, and different contexts. I feel like that’s one of the things I love most about solo travel, and that’s what it taught me. The earliest is that we all have roles kind of that we’re built to play when we grow up or who we’re told to play. And like, that’s all our parents know. So like, they kind of, here’s your little template.
But when you travel and especially when you travel solo, you really get to, in a very literal, visceral way, which is why it’s so impactful, decide that you want to land in this country and be outgoing. You want to talk to every single person. You want to be the person who, like, stays out all night. And then you can go to the next country and decide that you’re quiet and not go out at all. And that you’re a foodie. You only eat. Like, you really—the way that you can’t do that at home because of the environment and the people around you and you’re like, oh, it’s so hard.
I mean, especially as a creator, you have to know that when you start posting as a creator, your friends are like, who are you trying to be? You like it, you can’t change it. This is who you are. Don’t try so hard. And by traveling, I showed myself pretty—as I learned pretty early on that yeah, it is very much possible to change and that people kind of have to accept what you give them. So you have a lot more control over your life than you think you do.
And yeah, once you kind of own that and you’re like, no, I’m in the driver’s seat here. It’s interesting how quickly other things fall in line when you thought it would be so much harder or like, a much longer road.
Kwame
Yeah. I mean, taking control and taking ownership of everything around you—it’s a really, really important, like, powerful step. I think, you know, when I was going through my journey of playing soccer, I think I always leaned on other, I would say, other factors a little bit too much.
And the most powerful moment for me ever in my soccer career was the very last game that I played as—yeah, as an international soccer player. And it was because the first half of the season, in Sweden, I was the top scorer in, like, I think the country at the time. Definitely my league. But, you know, I was, I was…
Gabby
Like two, and I was getting it, you know.
Kwame
Yeah, you know, and the second half of the season, unfortunately, the first game that I came back, I injured myself. Well, I didn’t injure myself. Somebody injured me, you know. And it went downhill from there. And I got into this mentality of, like, I feel like when you start to let certain things affect you, you start blaming the external factors. You’re just like, okay, this hurts, or I didn’t get enough sleep because of this. You know, there’s so many other factors that come into play.
And so that second half of the season, I scored zero goals, right? I was also a little bit under an injury and trying to recover. But I also really, really wanted that really big contract. I wanted to keep my stats up. But going into the last game of the week or of my season, we were in a relegation battle. We were possibly going to get, you know, in soccer there’s relegation and promotion. So if we lost, we would go down to the league below.
So going into that game, I told myself, I control my fate. I’m going to do the absolute best I can. I’m going to win. And that entire, I think two weeks or so in prep, I only watched the Kobe videos.
Gabby
Oh.
Kwame
Oh yes. All right. And so Kobe Bryant’s really important to me. Yeah, it’s really funny. But I remember going into that game, I got onto the field, I didn’t start, I wasn’t a starter anymore because obviously my performance didn’t warrant it. But going into that game, 20 minutes left, it was like the 68th minute. So about 22 minutes left, I was told to get my warm-up. And as I was warming up, I was saying Mamba mentality to myself over and over and over, like I control my own fate. I’m going to do it. This is all about me, and it’s probably one of the most crucial things that’s ever happened in my life.
I stepped on the field, in the 69th minute. Before the 70th minute, I had gotten an assist—literally within the first 20 seconds. And then ten minutes later, I got the ball in our half. I ran it all the way past the other team and scored. And this was, like, monumental for this season. It was a small city. It was a town of 1,000 people. The population is 1,000 people. So everyone was at this game.
It was probably the biggest, happiest moment of my soccer career because after that goal went in, everyone was screaming and I was thinking to myself, I’m capable. Yeah. You know, it’s a really, really powerful moment when you realize you can seize control of the things around you. And if you think you can do it, you really can do it.
So I know, a powerful moment—and wanted to share that. But I love that. I think the cool thing about you is once you seize control of these things in your life, you’ve done some incredible things. You know, you’ve been in so many incredible publications at CNN. Good Morning America. Really, really cool opportunities. And you are—you know, we haven’t mentioned it yet, but you are 2024 AdColor’s Creator of the Year.
Gabby
Thank you.
Kwame
Look, look, a little, little handclap for you. So you are doing so many amazing things. You know, as you’ve gone through this journey, what’s one thing that happened? And in that moment you were like, wow, I’m good at this. Like, I’m very proud of this moment. And this is like, I’m going to use this as my foundation to keep going.
Gabby
Yeah, I would say that I’ve had a few of those key moments, definitely. And I feel like those moments of momentum—that’s what I call them. When you get that validation or that confirmation from the universe that you’re on the right track, and that just sparks the next wave of momentum, and that’s how you build, I mean, everything. Like my whole career is based on those little moments, those little moments.
So I would say the one that comes to mind first is probably when I was still a smaller creator. I think I had maybe just gone full-time. And I mean, again, it was the pandemic, so I’m like, am I okay? When I have to call my boss next week and beg for my job back, like, is the paperwork through all the way yet?
But in that pivotal moment of, like, am I going to lose my foot still in that doorway or not? I remember getting this DM from one of my followers who reached out and said, Gabby, your content has been impacting me so much. I just want—something told me today to, like, reach out and DM you and tell you this, but you’re the reason I studied abroad. You’re the reason that I was able to, like, win a scholarship to college too. That you gave me permission to try and, like, try again when I failed. That led to me studying abroad and graduating debt-free too, which has now impacted me in my life in a way that I can, like, retire from my parents.
And so she said that to me. And I remember being in my mom’s house. The pandemic had just begun, and I was like, is this something that’s still viable? Does this make sense to me? Is this a sign? Like, is this—is the universe a sign that I should quit? And in that kind of darker moment, I remember getting that validation from her and just saying, like, people may not reach out to you every single day to say that you’re impacting them, but you are impacting them. You may not get signs every single day that you’re changing lives, but you are changing lives.
And so I really took that moment and wired it into my brain to say that you don’t need validation every step of the way. You just need to know kind of internally that you’re on the right track and that you’re making an impact. And like, the signs will unfold before you.
Which is why it was so nice, Scott, that we started this off. And you’re like, yeah, you know, you posted that video, and I’m like, oh, my Thanksgiving video that I just kind of, like, haphazardly threw up? But that in fact did you, and like, you took something away from that. And you didn’t necessarily DM me to say like, hey, that moment or comment or say or send it to a thousand people. But it’s the things that you don’t see that have an equal impact on your journey as a creator and as a human.
So I just now assume, instead of assuming the negative and saying like, oh, I didn’t get 10,000 shares, I guess no one cared. I now assume the positive that this got to the people that needed to reach, and they’re multiplying this in their own lives or like, this is going to come back in a big way soon.
Gabby
And that’s just a great example with the AdColor thing—that earlier this year, I’m like, influencer of the year, like, and then I saw the other people I was up against: Giraffe Hollow, one of my favorite creators, and Leah Smart, a great editor at LinkedIn. I was like, maybe, girl, let us manage our expectations. But then when I found that out, I ended up winning. And so if I was the first person to tell myself no, I never would have gotten here. So I’ve now decided to be the last person to tell myself no.
Scott
I love that. It’s so funny. On social media, I think about that a lot, and it’s interesting to kind of analyze your own behavior as a consumer of social media. It’s like, a lot of us are on all the time, and we’re not like sitting there and pounding like on everything. And it’s funny because flipping to, you know, some form of content creation, like we—you know, I haven’t been super active. I, you know, we put out the podcast, and I’m like, I should go out of my way to comment, to like, to reinforce these people because they’re creating great content.
And this weird vacuum of feedback can be debilitating if you’re in the wrong headspace. And it’s so funny because we were—I was walking through the office, and we had a co-op program where we hire folks out of college. And this young woman came up and she was like, Hey, I just want to let you know, I found out about Later by watching your podcast. And I love influencer marketing. I love what the Latter's are doing. And I applied that day. And I was like, oh, cool. And then I came back a year later. I was like, Did you ever like or comment on any of our videos? She’s like, No, I don’t do that. And I was like, You literally made a major life decision based on the podcast, and you didn’t engage.
And I was like, yeah, this is a sign from the universe that, like, don’t get too hung up on shares and comments and all that other stuff. Put it out in the world. And like, certain people will follow up and engage. But it’s like most of us aren’t sitting there liking everything that we actually like. So anyway, it’s a good reminder for folks when they’re out there on their creator journey.
Gabby
A thousand, 1,000%. I actually think of a quote from my mom, who’s like, Compliments are not for you. If you think of a compliment, like walking down the street and you see someone, you like their shoes: Oh, I like their shoes. That’s not for you. That’s for you to give to them. Because you’re right, it has to be an active choice to engage or share or like to give feedback.
And to your point, we’re all just kind of like mindlessly scrolling. You’re like, I mean, right now it’s like, oh, I saw a TikTok the other day. I’m like, Did you know who said that? Did you see any other content? Did you—you know, did you dig any deeper than like, oh, they gave me an idea, and that changed my life? It’s like, take a second. So yeah, I 100% believe in that too.
And I try to implement that in my day. And that’s come back to me actually a lot—me going out of my way to say, Hey, I love your podcast, or, Hey, I love the work you’re doing, or, Hey, I love the impact you’ve had on me. People are like, Wow, no one ever tells me that. I’m like, No way. No one tells you that? You’re huge. So I know if it happens to me, it happens to other creators and people in the public image too.
Scott
It’s funny too, like anytime I see small creators that produce great content because the big guys —they get tons of reinforcement or just natural engagement. And it’s like, okay, they got 3,000 this week, 5,000 likes this time. But I got a video and it’s like seven likes. I’m like, That person crushed that. I’m like, okay, this person—they’re in that stage where they need to get that extra push to keep going.
And so I don’t know, like I make a habit of, like, the smaller the creator, the more I try to lean in and give feedback when I really like something because I think it reinforces the algorithm to, like, Hey, pay attention, give this person more shots or eyeballs, and it can help them out.
Gabby
Yeah.
Kwame
Yeah, you know, I think this is a really important point for creators, Scott. I think the quality of your content does not have a direct correlation with how many people like it or comment, and that is a relational shift.
Gabby
There it is.
Kwame
No, but it’s so true because sometimes I’ll see something and I’m like, This should be viral. You know what I’m saying? And I’m sure that the creator creating it was creating it because they loved it, because they enjoyed it, and they thought it was good work, and they put it out. And they may not have had any expectations. They may have had expectations. But the small thing that we can do is now align back to what Gabby just said: Compliments aren’t for you.
Kwame
If you can give it, right, like, give that compliment. It’s like sometimes the small bit of validation is really important. Like in that moment where Gabby was about to maybe go backward in her decision to make a huge life step, one small moment really changed that. So I think the ability for us to help power each other forward—constant and consistent validation is maybe not necessarily, it’s not necessary. But I will say it could be that fuel in that vehicle that’s driving you forward, and you could almost be on E, and someone gives you that little bit, and boom, there you go. You got, you know, 30, 13 miles on you now. And you can keep going forward. So I do really think that that’s important.
Now, you know, as a creator you’ve gone through all these different parts of your journey. You’ve put them all together. You are moving forward. You are creating, you know, a living, an income. You know, I think when we get to that side of things in terms of, you know, the money side of things, when did you really start figuring out how to create a profit in a living from all of this?
Gabby
I remember my first sponsored blog post. I think I was still in college, and it was still a hobby, I remember someone reaching out to me via email and saying, Hey, these are packing cubes. I still remember—pro-packing cubes. And they said, Hey if we send them to you and you try them out and you like them, can you write a blog post for $50? And my brain, as an engineering brain, was like, Let me—how can I review 1,000 packing cubes? What is 1,000 times 50? Like, I can do that. So immediately I was like, Oh if this one—again, it’s like the extrapolation. It’s if one person’s reaching out to me, I have value. I just need to figure out how to leverage that correctly market it correctly or scale it correctly.
So like once you kind of have that little hint of like, Oh, this is monetizable, you can scale it if you’re creative enough. And it comes back to that manifesto talk because you just give me—I just need the platform. Give me an inch, I will take it a mile myself. So that first blog post was $50. And I remember after that, I started writing articles. So sponsored articles, back at the time for, like, Lonely Planet and Travel and Leisure and things like that. It was like maybe $200 per article. And I’m like, This is before I… I’m like, I can scale this. I could write, I could write a thousand words.
And so I was pumping out content. And then from $200 an article, it turned into $500 for an Instagram post. And then a $500 Instagram post was a package of deliverables for $5,000. And now it’s scaled up to speaking engagements and things like that. And so I would say to any creator who’s listening or any small business owner, it just starts with figuring out your value. And so you’ll get that in the feedback, in the comments, or how people are reaching out to you or like what they’re reaching out about. It’s figuring out your unique leverage point, and your value, and then it’s really just scaling that. Slowly.
Scott
I love talking about, like, the progression in the journey of going from the blog posts, you know, $50 all the way up to the brand deals. Along the way, you know, how did you manage the business side of it? Coming up from the very early days and then, you know, now you’re—you know, you’ve created a living from it. You’re doing a lot more deals and have a lot more going on. Have you created, like, support systems? Do you have a team who’s managing any of that? So I’m curious how you manage that day-to-day.
Gabby
Yeah, I have a team, for sure. I have a team of, like, six contractors who I work in and out with, and I have an accountant. So I have a CPA paid monthly, for sure. She does all—I’m a digital nomad too, so I’m like, Please, I don’t want to get arrested by the IRS. Do whatever you need to do to save me money on my taxes and make sure I’m, like, up to code. So she does all that. I have multiple VAs. I have a project manager. I have a brand strategist. I’ve hired PR in the past, things like that. And I think that allows me to work in my zone of genius.
And so my zone of genius is obviously content creation and being public-facing and talking. But it’s also, for me, the emails. Like, only I can tell the story—my story—the way I want it told. So I like to respond to most of my emails myself. Even though I’ve had management in the past, I feel like I still leverage myself best.
So basically, I remember writing out a long list of the things I did every single day or every single week, and it was insane. It was—if I was a full-scale business, I’d have eight departments. So I wrote down the different tasks I wrote, and then I said, What do I suck at? Like, what do I avoid, I forget, or I’m just really, really bad at? And then those are the first things I hired out for.
Scott
I love that. Talking about what you’re good at, what you’re not good at, what you like to do, what you don’t—it’s like this ikigai-type concept. I don’t know if you’ve seen it, but it’s like what you’re good at, what the world needs, what you like to do. And kind of being in that central zone is where you’ll be productive for society.
Gabby
And sustainable, like not burning out.
Scott
Yeah, I talk about that a lot because there are a lot of things I’m not good at. And that’s why we have an amazing team who can do all those other things.
Gabby
Me too.
Scott
Okay, I like that. So I like this zone of genius. I don’t know—the zone of competency for me, less genius. What one logistical question—and I just think about it, you’ve gone to so many countries. I think it was like 47 on what the latest count is, but a lot of solo trips.
Gabby
52.
Scott
Crazy. So how do you—like, where do you even get, like, start on the next trip? You’re like, I’m going to go to Kenya, China, or Japan, or is it, like, brand-inspired? Or you’re just like, I want to go here, so I’m going to make it happen and manifest a trip to wherever.
Gabby
I have the most logistics game in the mail. Okay, so no matter where I am, every year, I have this gigantic calendar—like, absolutely not a normal human-sized calendar. And I put on that calendar where I have to go because it’s a brand partnership or it’s a time of year like the Cannes Film Festival happens in June—I have to be in Cannes. So I’ll put it on the calendar, and then in between, I can wait. I have not been to Kenya. I’m actually manifesting as we speak. So if you see me again this year, put a comment on the content like, Wait, we did that?
Scott
We’ll be there.
Gabby
So yeah, I put it on the calendar, and then I’m able to kind of map out between those trips, like, is it worth coming back to the US? If I’m going to be in China and Japan within the same two weeks of each other, probably not. So then I’ll do the in-between.
When I was traveling full-time in 2021, this was like a chaotic year. I would fly to—I think I flew first to Dubai, to go back to Dubai for the first time since I left. From Dubai, I had no plan. I had no plan. I was like, Where do I go next? And work took me to Mexico, and then work took me to the Republic of Georgia. So I was doing, like, nonsensical flights. And then the Republic of Georgia—I had no plan. So I was like, okay, I’ll go somewhere close by, I’ll go to Germany.
So I’ve done it every way possible, basically, and all ways are possible and all ways are fun. I think the way to make it sustainable and not burn out from the jet lag or the money—and, like, just pay exorbitant amounts for flights last minute or whatever—is really kind of the tools and tricks I use, like literally the tools Skyscanner or Google Flights or things like that or local airlines. And then it’s—I am actually an introvert, despite what a lot of people think. They’re like, You’re so friendly, you’re so extroverted. I’m like, Yeah, that’s just a limited-time-only offer. And then I need to be alone to do my solo travel.
So allowing myself to rest and allowing myself to plan out—and if I really am getting burned out, I’ll be like, I’m just doing a month here, and I’m going to do a month in Mexico and relax. And so yeah, honestly, the flexibility to be able to see that is what makes it sustainable for me to do.
Scott
Yeah, like, Oh, I won this award. I have to go back to the ceremony. What a drag.
Gabby
You know, Mexico had to be in L.A. I’m like, I have to stay in downtown L.A., guys. I’m sorry.
Kwame
Well, you know, with all the different avenues that you’ve now been working—and like you said, you started off just writing blog posts for a certain amount of money, and it evolved from there—what would you say is now your main source of income in terms of all the different funnels that you have? I mean, you know, obviously, there’s diversity in it, but where would you say you focus most of your energy?
Gabby
I would say that right now my largest income stream is probably brand partnerships, just by virtue of being an influencer. But I’m actively trying to change that. So where I focus my energy right now is my own products. I have digital products, eBooks, and things like that. I’m actually launching my own app in January. And that’s really kind of a circle back to my own story. It’s meant to share scholarships and grants and make travel accessible for—aka me when I was 18 years old. So I’m launching that; it’s a SaaS product in January.
So I’m really, I guess, expanding from creator to creator-preneur and turning those little revenue streams into full-fledged, separate businesses.
Scott
I love that. That is super cool. I saw a lot of your posts, like thematically on how you can work remotely and live here or how you can, you know, get a scholarship to study abroad here. And I think it’s such a cool way to experience these different kinds of international exchange programs or even, what’s the—there’s like one on a boat. It’s like…
Gabby
Semester at Sea.
Scott
Yeah! That’s a great example. Yeah. It’s exposure, right? It’s like that one trip might trigger something in someone’s brain. So it’s getting them all—it’s like everything we’ve been talking about today. That’s pretty much what the app is. It’s like that one inspiration through travel that can rewire you in a cool way.
I think that time of life is just so—you’re, like, cued up to be open-minded and to explore the possibilities of what could and should be. Like, I think before that, you don’t know, and you’re still trying to figure out, like, what way is up. And then it’s this kind of interesting high school-to-college transition of, like, exploring the world. You learn about things that are good, bad, and different, and you try to make sense of them. I think it’s such a unique and cool time to go out and explore the world in a very formative way.
Gabby
Yeah, and I’m like actively trying to grasp every single person in that time period and be like, I was lucky enough that this happened to me. Now I’m trying to push you. Like, this is the time. Go travel. Go take that risk. Go have your brain rewired because the next thing you know, yeah, life hits. And then you—I mean, a lot of obligations and a lot of, like, expectations or whatever. If you don’t kind of have that expansion at a certain time—you asked me, like, when I was younger, what kind of primed me to be open-minded like that. I think it was because I was young. I didn’t let those limitations form. And so I’m trying to help people before they have those limitations.
Scott
You too could be petting a whale in Mexico.
Gabby
I’m saying no!
Scott
Your video was amazing, by the way.
Gabby
Yeah, yeah, that was exciting. That happens in February if you want to go see the whales in Mexico.
Kwame
Well, sweet. Well, you know, Gabby, as we get to a point where we’re wrapping up, we have a couple of things that we like to touch on, which, you know, by the way, I’ve really, really enjoyed the conversation so far. So thank you for lending us all of this really cool experience throughout your life.
But when it comes to the creator side of things, we like to do this or that. And that this or that really just pertains to what you prefer as a creator. So I’m just going to ask you—it’s going to be a lightning round. You give us what this or that is and one sentence to sum up why.
Gabby
Okay, cool.
Kwame
Sweet. So Instagram or TikTok.
Gabby
Ooh, Instagram. Because I feel like the depth of community—I feel like it’s quality versus quantity.
Kwame
Okay. I like that. Short-term or long-term partnership?
Gabby
Long-term, easily long-term. I feel like the statistic is that a consumer needs seven touchpoints to, like, be sold on something, even the idea of something. So the longer you let me talk to my audience, the more value the brand gets. It’s a win-win.
Kwame
Oh, I like that a lot. Okay, well, with that being said, would it be short-form or long-form for your content?
Gabby
Oh my God, I have to say short-form. Even though I want to say long-form—short-form, the way my brain is wired, I can just get more ideas out there and see where those lead. Whereas long-form—honestly, I need a—I’m working on an editing team. If someone has a video editor or wants to suggest them to me, let me know because if I have to edit my own long-form videos, you’ll see them next year.
Kwame
I like it. A story or a grid post?
Gabby
Definitely a grid post with the way the algorithm is right now. I used to love stories, but I’ll say Grid right now.
Kwame
Okay. And then if you’re on your grid, would you want it to be a video or a static post?
Gabby
I like consuming both, but I’ll say a static post maybe right now. December—that’s my answer. But I like static posts these days. I like a little cozy scrolling read.
Scott
The other question that we ask is if there’s one brand that you haven’t worked with that’s just, like, tops—if they approached you, it would be the best brand that you can imagine. Who would that be?
Gabby
T-Mobile. I mean, literally, I’ve had T-Mobile since I was in high school, and I’ve obviously had it on every single trip. And I love their international plan. I love pink. The magenta T-Mobile. I love them. Cannot fall far apart. And I always just—yeah, I love my T-Mobile service. So call me, T-Mobile.
Kwame
Yeah, I’ve had T-Mobile since 2011.
Gabby
Right?
Kwame
OG. Yes. And the great thing about T-Mobile is I had a plan that was international. So if I went to Europe, I wouldn't have to change anything. And you know, it could have been very slow, like 2G.
Gabby
3G, and actually, it was so funny. I was just in China, and I was on the Great Wall of China, and I FaceTimed my dad. And my dad’s like, Is there Wi-Fi? I’m like, No, I’m on my T-Mobile plan. So wow, it really comes in handy.
Kwame
Yeah, we’re going to send that clip to T-Mobile. T-Mobile, we’re sending you that one.
Gabby
Send that to China. I’ll say something. You want to, no? The Great Wall of China.
Scott
It’s funny—and maybe, like, to put a bow on this—it’s funny how you posted that, and then the kind of, alpine slide. And I think you were in the same spot that I was. So I—I don’t—I was in an international master’s program, and we had to, for an entire year, take a second language. So I took Japanese every day for a year. And then the culmination was we went on a four-week trip to Tokyo, Korea, Beijing, and Shanghai. And I was at that spot in Beijing. And I remember being there with my classmates.
And in Portland, you wear, like, the Blazers jersey, and it’s like a Where in the world, and you get put up on the board. So, like, me and my classmates were in that spot in Beijing. And I remember how terrible the stairs were. And I’m like, I do not live in New York for this. But no, I can attest to—it’s like, I think the encouragement for younger listeners would be to get out there, explore the world. If you have the opportunity to go study or integrate into PTO, it was eye-opening for me.
It made me appreciate a lot of different cultures, learning languages, experiencing what the world has to offer, and understanding that difference isn’t always bad. And difference—we have a lot more in common than we think. And I think in a time that can be fairly divisive on a whole variety of levels, you know, spending time advocating for our own interests and the interests of the world is pretty special. And I love that you’re giving people inspiration to go out, explore, and learn about other people, and different cultures, and enjoy life and kind of find their own.
So with that, where can people best interact with your content and this new app you have coming?
Gabby
Yes. So I’m Gabby at Pax Light. But you can find me at Pax Light—P-A-X Light—on every platform. I actually probably need to, like, consolidate platforms because I’m really on every platform. And then if you are interested in paid travel opportunities, and scholarships—like these programs—it’s called Seek PTO and seekpto.com.
Scott
Well, it’s always been amazing catching up with you. We’ll be following your adventures, and then hopefully we catch you in France in the summertime next year. But yeah, we wish you all the success and love of what you stand for and what you’re putting out into the world. So thanks for coming on and spending time with us.
Gabby
I appreciate it. Thanks so much. I love Later. Like, if you see my posts on social media, you’re seeing them through later. So shout out to the Later platform.
Scott
Thanks, we appreciate it.
Kwame
Lovely. With that being said, everything was amazing today. Thank you for spending that time with us. We had a great time. Thank you, everyone, for tuning in. Hope you got a lot out of today because I know I did. With that being said, we will see you all next week. Bye-bye.
Scott
See ya.