Transcript
Introducing Jason Tartick
Kwame:
Hey, everybody. Welcome to today's episode of Beyond Influence. I'm very excited about today. I am one of your hosts, Kwame. Some of you know me from Love is Blind. I know I say that a couple of times here and there. But I'm also the Head of Influencer Experience over at Later with my co-host, Scott.
Scott:
Hey, everyone. Great to see you on another episode. Scott Sutton, CEO of Later. Super excited about our episode today. An amazing guest. Can't wait to get the discussion started.
Kwame:
Yes. And then we have today in our midst, one of the coolest people that I've ever met, arguably the most interesting man in the world. He is a reality TV superstar. A New York Times best-selling author. He is an MBA graduate. Most of y'all didn't know that, I know that for sure. So he's not just wicked handsome. He's also an incredibly smart guy. We have with us today, Jason Tartick, ladies and gentlemen.
Jason:
Kwame! What's up, man? What a great intro. I'm feeling good after that. Scott, nice to meet you and congrats on this endeavor, and I'm excited to be here.
Scott:
Awesome. We're stoked to have you on the podcast. Man, you've just been up to everything lately, and Kwame and I were talking about, it's like, what direction do you go? I've seen you out at concerts, you're at F1, you're on a book tour, you're on Good Morning America.... I feel like I travel a lot, and you're 10 times out there more than I am. So how's life been? It's got to be a lot right now.
Jason:
I'm racking up those Delta Miles, Scott. Yeah, it's been a crazy, crazy 2024 for the good and bad. I think some of the highest of highs and some of, quite frankly, the lowest of lows. But I told myself going into this year, I even said it on my podcast. I was like, "Alright, my goal is I'm just going to let my hair down a little bit. I'm going to really work on caring less about what other people think, and I'm just going to do me, and I'm really going to put my self needs first." Usually, I'm more of a people pleaser and a self-sacrificer. So this year has been all about that.
And the last two, three months between the book tour and doing PR on the book and then just different events that have popped up, it has been a whirlwind, but it's been so much fun. And one thing we'll probably talk about today is the ideology of aligning fun and productivity. So all the fun things you're seeing me do, there's also a lot of productivity and business behind the scenes at each of those. So that I feel beyond grateful for.
Scott:
I love that. What was your inspiration? You're walking into the year... What led you to have that moment when you're like, "This is going to be the year, this is going be..." I think a lot of people want that. They're craving that self-growth, that journey, whether it's physical, mental, relationship, business... Whatever that means for them. So many people are craving a change in their life. What led you to just make that decision and go to all in?
Leading with authenticity & vulnerability
Jason:
I think for most of my life, especially before reality TV, and Kwame, I don't know if you feel this way, but I do feel a little bit that, weirdly enough, reality TV reconnected my head and my heart. I feel like when I got out of school, I was just so focused on the head. Like, go get the job, get the MBA, go to the next spot. And weirdly enough, reality TV helped me connect my head and my heart, then led to therapy, then led to understanding feelings. And I've done a lot of work to really understand feelings. Well, I started to understand feelings at a time where feelings were extremely aggressive because I was in a four and a half year engagement. It didn't work out last year. Essentially, I got dumped. And it was last summer and I was just... It was the lowest I've ever been and I hope it's the lowest I ever will be. Because of going to therapy and putting in so much time, it was one of the first times in my life I truly understood my feelings. I felt my feelings. I could communicate those feelings. I went through an intense grieving process.
But I think when you actually go through it, you feel it, you talk about it, you express it... When you get out of the other side, it gives you so much opportunity to see the light at the end of the tunnel. I just feel like when January 1 of this year, December 31st of this year, when I'm talking about 2024, I was like, "I felt it. I went through it. It was hell and back and here I am, and I'm new. And I'm new and it's a new chapter. I'm going to go live that chapter." So I think that was, quite frankly, the real result of it.
Kwame:
That is incredible. I love the imagery that you're putting to it. And honestly, I do agree with you. I feel like when it comes to going and being out on reality TV, it has a major reconnection, a re-self-centering. I myself, when I got out of school, I thought to myself, "What can I do to go live out my dreams and my passions?" And it was definitely a moment of throwing myself out into it. But I realized at a certain point that I really was putting, I think, relationships aside. And I was lucky that I was focusing on myself, but it was still an element that was missing. I think you go to a certain degree; you just keep going and going. You're like, regardless of how much I achieve right now, there's something that is missing within those achievements that really creates fulfillment.
So I agree with you 100%, man. And obviously, it's been a fantastic year for you. We don't ever want to rate things and say, "What's the top, what's the bottom?" But you've done so much and so many cool things. I want to just figure out: What is something that has stuck out to you this year that has been like, "Wow, this was an incredible moment and I'm really glad that it all came together for me in this time."
Jason:
I think that... I think something that was big for me this year was the confidence to know that no matter what quarter I'm backed into, I'll find my way out. And then the confidence, finally... I think I deal with a little bit of imposter syndrome at times, and I've worked slowly at chipping away, and I've gotten bigger and better at it. But I still doubt myself a little bit, like my brand and my impact on my own. And so getting ready for the book tour, I was so excited about it. We landed a great sponsorship with Capital One Cafe, and I was like, "Okay, we're going to make this amazing. I'm going to bring the best guests in each city, like you and Chelsea, on stage. We're going to have the best interviews. And as a result of that, a lot of people are going to come. These are hometown heroes, and we'll kill it."
And then a week before that book tour - actually about a month before, sorry, given the sake of time, about a month before - they told me legally and from a liability standpoint and just many moving factors, all my guests I had lined up in every city, from Rob Gronkowski in Boston to you guys in Seattle to... It was a laundry list of people in all the stops that they couldn't be part of the actual show other than sitting in the front row and maybe participating a little bit here and there. That was my workaround. When we announced it, even though it was just me and I said we'd have special guests, but I couldn't name them, it still sold out. Everyone still came. It was still impactful. It was a good lesson to myself. Just believe in what you're doing because people are listening and people are here for you. And yes, it always will help to have friends like Chelsea and Kwame in Seattle with you but you can do this on your own. And for me, weirdly enough, that gave a lot of confidence. I look at that as a high.
Scott:
I think, too, the vulnerability of you being someone who's very successful, who has gone through a lot and is clearly crushing it, just being very open about the trials and the tribulations, the lack of self-confidence and assuredness. Just being honest, I went through a major career transition and stepped into a CEO role and there's a lot of interesting emotions. You're fired up, you're pumped, you're under adrenaline rush. You're also like, "How do I want to show up in this moment? What's the authentic version of me?" And for myself, I also... If you look at my LinkedIn, I'm in a suit and glasses with Harvard everywhere. But realistic me is kind of goofy, nerdy but in a fun way and I like having open dialogue about ideas you're excited about and emotions and unpacking real relationships and what's not working.
And I think more people need to hear that. It's not just a bunch of guys in suits in a boardroom making decisions. It's real life struggles and emotions and being real people. That leads to success. And I think the faster you realize that you're not perfect, you are who you are, and being the best version of that and letting people see that, you're going to find a greater amount of success than trying to be something you're not or fit into some mould. It's cliché, but I think it's way harder to execute than say. And I just love for you that you've been able to embody that this year and you're finding all success. Like you said, people showing up to see you on your own merit as Jason, the authentic version of yourself, and it's resonating. It's just amazing. It's great.
Jason:
Yeah. I think it's really cool for your listeners here to hear three things here. They're going to get your perspective as CEO, Harvard grad. Then, Kwame, I'd be curious, your take and my take coming from reality TV, because, weirdly enough - and obviously, you're in the professional setting as well - weirdly enough, I was nine years at this bank moving all over the place. As bizarre as it is, it was me going on a reality show that allowed me to connect deeper in that one year after the reality show than I did in eight years in the institution before then. And yes, I think, of course, there's people want to connect because you went on the show. But what I noticed was the first time ever…
I was, Scott, a big walls up (person). You're going to get my professional side. I'm going to speak the talk. I'm going to act a certain way. I'm going to be... And then when my suit came off, I was like a different human For the first time that year, I was just vulnerable about everything. Everyone knew my personal life and they knew about my everything. Growing up in a Jewish, with a Jewish mother, Catholic father, (and a) gay brother. They just (knew) all these different things. As a result of it, it was actually allowing my personal life to touch into my business life that allowed me to connect with business people at such deeper levels, which I never thought.
I always thought you have to be your business person and then go be your personal person. I'm curious. It was cool to hear your perspective, Scott. Kwame, did you notice that at all? After the show, you were able to connect with people deeper because they knew you deeper. So it was easier for you to do that?
Kwame:
Yeah, I mean, 100%. When you go through an experience like this and people start to get into all the levels of who you are, they can't help but relate to all those levels. And I think one of the most meaningful experiences that I ever had with anyone who was a fan of Love Is Blind, it made me realize what impact it had in helping people to see you across multiple different levels of who you are. (This fan) walked up to me at a hotel and said, "Hey, I think you're Kwame". I was like, "Yeah, I am Kwame. Good to meet you." And he said, "I want to tell you something and be really honest with you. I feel like your portrayal was a little harsh, but what I could sense in it was that I feel like you were probably the most sane person I've ever seen on reality TV."
And it dialed me back because I was like, I never thought about it that way. There are people who relate to the human side of you and the difficulties and the choices and the things that really make you sit there and just hit your head against the wall.
People want to feel that real aspect of you. And when you say something like, you have imposter syndrome and everyone looks at you like, "You're Jason Tartick. You're this incredibly successful, really handsome guy. Everything should be okay." But people love to relate to the moments of knowing that you grew up with a Jewish mother, and people in certain areas who've gone through experience like that relate to you and it changes the way you connect in so many ways.
Jason:
100%. I think personally, professionally, and even with a lot of the stuff I try to do financially, it truly is the thesis that vulnerability, I think, is the root of any and all connection. I think even Kwame, when you and I were in Seattle after the book tour, sitting at the bar just talking about life and things were trying to work on, identity... That was a true connecting moment, right? Not all the other stuff when we're talking about brand deals and stuff like that. So, yeah, it's wild how all those connect to business, too.
Kwame:
I'm so grateful, I think, for meeting Jason and actually getting to connect with him. It is really funny because you mentioning that there was a point in time when you had this wall of having your business side up, being at your book tour, which, by the way, got it right here. *shows the screen Jason’s book, The Restart Roadmap*
Jason:
Let's go! Come on now!
Kwame:
Being at your book tour helped me see a really, really carefree side of relating to something that is typically so serious. I remember the first thing you did when you got up on stage, you were like, "Man, Capital One said to me I can't curse up here and I can't drink. And I came up here to have a good time. And we're about to talk about finances. How the hell am I going to keep you all entertained?" You know what I mean? And that's the real side of it, because it's a bunch of numbers and by itself, it is boring, but it is so important. So it's like, how do we bring ourselves and our experience and the things that make us light up, the things that make us ourselves and bring our personality and relate it to these things that really matter. And I think you do that in a really, really cool way. So I thought I got a really good experience with that.
The importance of showing up as yourself
Jason:
Cool, man. I appreciate that. It's hard to make finance fun, but that's what we try to do.
Scott:
I love what you said about you finding more success and more authenticity in a business context, letting your guard down. And I think about sales as a particular beast. And I think there's so much jargon and there's so many aggressive sales tactics and all this stuff. And I get on sales calls and I lap the most success I will ever have on a sales call being like, "Jason, I know this is hard. I know this is a big decision. I have to make these decisions every single day and it's tough. What's on your mind? What do you have going on? I've been there. I've walked through those decisions. As human to human, I'm going to be there to help support your business. You can call me if you need me and I'm going to pick up the phone."
Those types of interactions versus, "Here's the 17 features of our software platform, and you can filter and sort by whatever. That doesn't sell. People are way smarter and way more perceptive, I think, than we give them credit for. I think if you're like, "If I get them to believe these five features, everything's good and they're going to buy."
People buy from people, people buy on trust, even in a business context. I think being real, being authentic... People see that. They see that you're being honest, you're being who you are and then they learn to trust that individual. They learn to trust you and what the company stands for. I think that's a way better way to operate. It's way more authentic. And your employees, too, as a leader, they see through the nonsense. They see through any front you're going to put up. I think it's just better to be honest and open about who you are, what you struggle with, what you're good at, surround yourself with people who make you better. And then every day, just be very open about the struggles that you're facing as a team, as a person, and try to do better.
Jason:
*dog barking* I have no idea what's here. Can we just pause for a second?
Scott:
Yeah, you're good. I was hoping so badly it was going to be a door-to-door salesman trying to pitch you on some service because that would be the most point of moment.
Jason:
It would have been perfect.
Scott:
It's like, we're going around the neighborhood seeing if you want your windows clean.
Jason:
Okay. I'm recording again, so sorry. Sales talk.
Scott:
No, you're all good. I think in general, the best sales calls I'm on is when you're just a normal person and you are who you are. People see very clearly through the BS and through the walls that you put up. And I think it erodes trust because they don't believe you. They don't believe the front that you're giving them. And so if you do it in a way that breeds confidence and lets them know who you are and that you're going to fight for them. I think that's the best way to go sell as well.
Jason:
Absolutely. You know, it's funny. The best sales advice I ever got was from Chris Voss, who, I don't know if you guys are familiar with him or not, but he's a former FBI hostage negotiator. So he's working in these situations of such high pressure where someone is literally considering killing someone to get their way. And even someone like that, his whole tactic, Scott, (is) a lot of what you said. It's understanding the person. It's listening to them. It's hearing them. It's talking less. There's so many things like that you can actually apply to business sales, which is a wild connection. But he always says, "When someone feels like they're backed into the corner, you've lost. When you're over explaining, you've lost." So these people that are in these hostage situations, he's trying to just say, "Listen, we got options for you. It's okay. You don't have to do this. We'll find options." I think one of the cool things he talks about is when it relates to sales as a society, we have just built our walls up so high that our likelihood of saying yes to anything is decreased significantly. Even changing your question can have a huge impact on the result of it.
So, the most basic example would be like, "Kwame, do you want to get sushi tonight?" Typically, your brain would say, "Okay, I got to find reasons why I can't. Saying yes is hard." If I say to you, "Kwame, are you against getting sushi tonight?", the likelihood of you saying no is much greater, but I'm still getting the same result. And so there are so many ways. And he even talks about in the sales process saying, going to your clients and saying, "I understand why you wouldn't do this deal. There's this reason, this reason, this reason. And honestly, for those, maybe I don't make sense." And it's wild how simple things of just understanding and hearing people can actually help you with productivity of selling.
Scott:
Yeah, for sure. Shout out to Chris Voss. I think (his book is called) Never Split The Difference. Solid book. Go pick it up. So I think shifting a little bit to some of the work you're going on, I was curious with all you've got going on and all the opportunities, how do you pick where you want to spend your time? And you've got this audience on Instagram. We haven't even talked about your talent agency that you started. I'd love to unpack that.
How Jason balances his different endeavors
Scott:
You've got now the book (The Restart Roadmap), you've got the Trading Secrets podcast. There's a lot of different directions where you could be investing your time. I'm curious, as you sit back and look at the opportunities in front of you, how do you divvy up your time? How do you divvy up the investment of your personal resources? And then as you build out a team and your business partners and all that, where are you thinking about or what logic are you putting into balancing all that?
Jason:
I've got to be honest, I have to do probably a better job of that. But what I did construct, because that's really not my forte, a lot of the times I just prioritize based on my gut and my intuition as opposed to all the logic and strategy. Like, Kwame asked me to do this podcast... It just instantly, (my) gut (went) "100%, let's make it work. We work together, you're a friend, there's huge opportunities here down the road for us. I think I won't even think twice about it." So a lot of times I just proceed with gut and instincts.
But what I did was I created a system here that everything connects almost like a spider web. So when I'm podcasting, all the content from my podcast will be used for my social. In one hour, I'll generate at least 5 to 10 clips. I'll also generate 5 to 10 clips that my guests, hopefully and likely, will share. It's also building my brand, maybe even collaborate on it, while also building the podcast. The podcast generates revenue, I'm building my social media brand, and I'm connecting my network. I also have an agency, so once I get to know these people a little bit better on the podcast, I can then pitch them on the idea of an agency.
So all these little things that I'm doing actually connect all into the same funnel. When I'm going to an event, like I was just at F1 with Raising Canes, I'm interviewing the founder. Now I could talk to the founder not only as network, but as a friendship, as a potential investor in other things I do. And as a result of that, at that event, there was 20 to 25 big, big-time celebrities there that I had the opportunity to sit down with. And maybe could come on the podcast, maybe I could pitch them for deals, maybe I could pitch them for social media collaborations, maybe I could pitch them for equity placement, maybe it's a board thing...
All the energy spent, whether it's a podcast, whether it's an event, whether it is something connected to the agency, all funnels into the same thing and each of them hedge to help one another, if that makes sense. Now, the only material weakness in that strategy is almost all of it is tied to digital marketing and social media. And so when someone flips that switch off, yes, you'll have a good contact base, but there's a ton of exposure there.
Scott:
Yeah, I love how you tie it all together because I think a lot of folks... Kwame and I were literally talking yesterday about the circuit of events that we see a lot of the big brands at. We see a lot influencers and celebrities. And I think there's this perspective that influencers are going and just partiyng at F1, partying at Coachella, partying at Stage Coach. They're going on this.
But I think what is really interesting to see is it's not just partying and having a good time. There's so much networking and business, building brands, supporting brands that's going on. And there's a lot of... There's fun allowed to be had at business events and this is an extension of a business event. But I think people take for granted the amount of energy and effort it takes to network well and to follow up and to turn those opportunities into meaningful business relationships and then brand deals and all this and running a podcast, managing your guests, having them on, preparing for those episodes, all that. It's a lot more…
And I come back to success is hard work, and it requires putting an effort and energy. And influencing isn't just taking pictures on social media or being on reality TV. It really is an investment in time There's a lot of really smart, motivated people out there trying to make that happen.
Jason:
Yeah, exactly. When you're in these situations networking, people are going to do it for one or two reasons, especially at this level. They're at such high demand all over the place. Either the economics got to make sense or they really got to like you. When you're in these positions, you think they're really going to like me if I'm like, I got a top 25 podcast. I got 100... No. They're going to like you because you're talking life with them. You're having drinks with them. You're kicking it back. I think that's the art of the networking. I even think about an event I spoke at in Toronto last week. The rate in which I took for the speaking was significantly less than I would ever take. However, the people that I was speaking to could create massive opportunity. The CMOs of Amex were there and massive banks. The opportunity I'll likely get from that speaking event will hopefully be like 10X with the actual speaking portion paid. I think it's also thinking a longer picture.
I also think to your point about the content creation and influencer side. I had someone who's a friend of mine who was at F1, she's an attorney. She texted me after F1. I was like, "Okay, I'm ready to be an influencer. I see all the things that you guys get." My response to her was, I said, "I love the ambition, but that's like saying you saw a doctor's nice boat and saying, I want to be a doctor." She's like, "Come on." I'm like, "No, I'm serious. No, you don't have 10 years of school. But if you have no form of following and then you want to just get into this..."
I was (like), "Here's a starting point. 14 days, go post 14 Reels, one Reel every day. Stories, 5-10 slides every single day. Go to TikTok, you need at least 2-3 videos a day there, so about 45 videos. We're talking about 14 days, every single day. You have to look at about 140 stories and roughly around 60 to 70 videos. If you could do that in 14 days, you'll have enough information based on the analytics to see where things popped for you and where they didn't pop. Then you could try to rinse and repeat. If you do that for a year, you'll likely see some good traction. We can get it going." That's a lot. That's a lot of work. It's just a small breakdown of it's much more than just a picture and drinking and having fun. So, yeah, there's that to it.
Kwame:
Yeah, it's so true. I say this all the time. I wish I was a better influencer. I'm just getting to the point of realizing that everything can be an opportunity. I think it can be tough splitting between... There's that paradigm of I want to be able to enjoy the things around me, but I also know that this is something that my audience would enjoy as well. And so turning it on and turning it off, trying to maintain the consistency of being an influencer and putting out consistent content, but also trying to stay in the moment... Yeah, that is an incredible talent that really good influencers have to have. Because if it wasn't for that, your phone would literally be in your head. You would have 23 hours of screen time.
Jason:
It's so true.
Kwame:
Yeah, it's unbelievable. And so it's really, really important to manage that and manage those expectations that as an influencer, there's a lot that goes into your day to day. If you work a standard, if you have a nine to five, not everybody has the ability to just turn it off after that. There's obviously a lot of work that goes into it. Based on your role, there's still expectations beyond that. But I think sometimes there's a way to create some separation. And that's somebody who... I am very blessed in this position. I'm fortunate to be working for a great organization but also have the ability to tie that into my influencing. So it's been a bit of a growth process to figure out when to tap into what part of my life in order to get the most out of who I am and create the most potential. So it's something that I'm still working on, but it is a day to day.
And I think when we think about who you are and how you've created all these different avenues and how you stay strong in all these things... One thing that you consistently embody and push out is that you create and focus on creation with people. People are at the center of this entire spider web. You have to make sure that you are consistently catering to and learning about the people around you, and in some moments, making sure that you are also getting what you need out of it. So it's a great way to understand and be aware of yourself and the people who are around you, the circle that you keep.
Jason:
Yeah, literally, perfectly said. There's not one thing you just said there that I disagree with. I couldn't agree more. It's bang on.
How Rewired Talent got started & where it's going
Kwame:
I'm very grateful for the fact that we've met and become friends. But what originally brought us to our encounter was a DM that came out right after Love Is Blind came out that said, "Hey, I'm Jason Tartick. I have this agency called Rewired." And you went through that spiel, and we set up some time, and we got to talking, and eventually, Chelsea and I both jumped on board for Rewired. So I want to dive a a little bit deep into where Rewired came from and how it's going.
Jason:
Yeah. So, it's funny because I think we just saw the stardom in you two and also that season was huge and you two were blowing up and everything. We're like, "We need to work with these people." And so that was the opportunity we reached out to get to know everyone to see who would be a good fit, et cetera. But Rewired, we started this in 2020 and for me, the thought process was... I see a lot of inefficiencies in this whole space, and I want to try and build something that can close those inefficiencies or do it a little differently and so that was the thought basis of it. And then the beta period was like, "Okay, let me get someone who I know is really good at business development who could do this with me and I'll be the guinea pig. We'll just manage me and we'll put processes in place and we'll fix inefficiencies and all different systems." Then we started scaling and scaling and scaling. One of the things I noticed, which I think is good advice for anyone, is if something's happening in your life, and you feel comfortable enough talking about it, you have no idea, no matter what industry, how many floodgates will open.
In 2018, when I got off the show, which is very different than social media in 2024, I would have all my buddies making fun of me. They would say, "Tap here, tap here, or no, swipe up." That's what it was. "Swipe up", because that's when you had to swipe up. I would tell my buddies, "All right, tell me what you think I made on that." They'd be like, "I don't know, a couple of hundred bucks." I'm like, "I made 15 grand on that." Their jaws were like, "What? Are you kidding?" This is 2018. It wasn't talked about as much. What I did was I started talking about it more. I started going online. I'd write blogs about it, do email marketing. "This industry is crazy. I just made this on this and this on this." People are like, "What?" As a result of that, people get off shows, whether it's Bachelor, Survivor, or Big Brother, whatever it was, MTV, and they would just DM me. They're like, "Hey, can I talk to you? How did you get that? How did you do this? How did you capture those emails?" Then I was just a goodness of my heart in the interest of it. I'd be like, Yeah, jump on a call for a couple of hours and help them.
What I realized is with the floodgates of people coming to me, I was like, I can start something here where we can actually work with them and manage them and then have a model that's just a a little bit different than what everybody else does. So that was the basis of it. It's 2024, and our revenue has grown each year, which is exciting. This year, we have the most amount of staff that we've had. We've been put in a position where we now have... We're all self-funded, so we have enough cash to redeploy to more people. So we have more agents and more operations team in place so that we can continue to grow. And it's been a learning process, but it's been so much fun.
Scott:
That's awesome. I love it. I love the mentality of it. And so many people we've talked to already, it's just these serendipitous moments that they say yes to the universe and they just start taking a leap and going out. And it's not this overnight success where it's like "Suddenly we had a staff of 20 in a client roster or a talent roster that was huge and all these A-list brands reaching out." It's struggling through it and I love that you use yourself as the guinea pig to go and run the process and learn the hard way.
And I think there's something, too, we talk about in our business. I want to get into the sales calls, still as CEO. I want to dive into the emails we're writing and I want to talk about the client experience, because I think unless you truly know what's happening and how things are working, you're never going to fully appreciate the customer experience, the staff experience, what's broken, what's working. Don't be in it every single day, all day, but you have to at least have walked through the process to understand and make it better. But I just love the message that sends. I like the entrepreneurship of it and just reinvesting back in the business and growing it. It's awesome. It's awesome to see.
So what's next on the Rewired front? You have the talent side. Are you thinking about expanding beyond that or is it just grow the roster, grow the team? Do you have bigger aspirations? Maybe taking on funding?
Jason:
Yeah, absolutely. 100%, (we) have larger aspirations. Right now, of course, we're in a little interesting position where we're a hybrid of a talent management company and an agency. We're sometimes working direct with brands, and sometimes we're only managing talent. And so what I would like to do is to slowly scale this to be a more like fully 360 management company where we have everything from event management to PR to talent management.
And I would like to... Our goal would be to have some of the best individuals in almost every single industry niche. So mommy bloggers, reality TV stars, finance influencers, et cetera. And then the idea here is just like slowly scale by adding on revenue sources that essentially are bringing ultimate value to the talent itself. But doing it in a way that's right, doing it in a way that makes sense for us. And then I see a lot of these digital marketing companies, and I think there's other services and things that we can add on and do it differently. And then hopefully potentially merge or look at a potential acquisition where we have someone with larger infrastructure that sees the value and the assets that we have. So that would be the play.
But we've been very, very thoughtful and intentional with doing it the way we've done it at our speed, at our rate, because it also gives us a lot of controllability and less bureaucracy. I think the second you start to get outside funding, that can change a lot, and it could just be just solely focused on profit-driven or not thinking long term with opportunities and investments. So that's where our head's at but this has been a big year, and I think the next two (years) will be instrumental in this process, especially as technology is having a huge impact on the industry.
Scott:
100 %. I think that's the two-edged sword of growth, and especially funded growth. It can launch you into space, and it can also launch you into a million pieces sideways if you don't know how to contain it. And so I think the thoughtful approach, not losing who you are, not being centered in delivering a great experience or focusing on the wrong things.
Even as a larger company, trying to keep that centered focus around amazing creators, around amazing brands and delivering really great outcomes. It's something, as we grow, we don't want to lose as well. I just love that being super thoughtful about how you're running the business and growth. I think, by the way, that is a contrary opinion to how a lot of people run businesses. I think if, in my case, I'm in a private equity-backed, heavy scale and growth-mode company. But if you look at how we actually manage our business, it's incredibly thoughtful around every dollar decision we make and incredibly thoughtful around the customer journey and how we engage with creators and support them on their journey and not just growth for growth's sake,
And I think if you're like the traditional "Let's just return shareholder value", the old traditional way... It just doesn't thrive. And I think you have to be revenue and profit-minded, but you have to do it in a way that's going to bring everyone along with you in the ecosystem. So I just love the approach you're taking, and I think it's dead on. I think it's, especially in the ecosystem, what people care about now, how they want to be sold to and how they want to consume. It's the right path for sure.
Jason:
100%. I couldn't agree more. It's good to know that, from the eyes of a CEO, you're saying we're doing it the way we should be. So that's good. That's reaffirming.
Scott:
No, I think so. And when you arrive at that end, not having taken as much funding, it's going to be a fun day for you all. And like you said, joining someone with more resources, too, to accelerate the vision and also take some risk off for yourself of what you've built. I think, too, about the personal time constraint that you have. There is a limit that you're going to reach. And I think one of the biggest learnings in my life is surrounding yourself with an amazing team.
And I think your partnership with Evan clearly is super successful on the Rewired side and there's a lot of trust there. And as you grow that team, hiring becomes the number one job because you can't be in every place doing everything. So it comes down to trust and creating a culture that you're really proud of. And that's another thing that can break with speed is losing the culture, losing the essence of what you started and why you started it to your point. So again, I think you guys are doing the right things and I love the success you're having. And it's easy to want to champion you all.
Jason:
Yeah, I appreciate that. It means a lot. It means a lot.
Jason's dream brand partnerships
Kwame:
And you know what? I wouldn't be doing, I think, everyone a favor here if I didn't hit this point. There's always something that I love to touch on whenever we have a guest, because ideally, we have an audience of really cool marketers and so hopefully there's a marketer out there that is listening that works for the dream brand that you would love to work with. So Jason, you've worked with a lot of cool brands. What would you say is still out there that is a partnership that you would love to have at some point in your influencing career?
Jason:
Yeah. I mean, okay, so I've been doing this since 2018. So this is, I think, my technical seventh year of being in this space. And I've had the pleasure of working with, at this point, over a thousand different brands. And the two spaces that I still can't believe I haven't done a good deal with, that is so organic in my life, is hotels and flights. And I always say, it's crazy because we manage influencers and Kwame, you probably know this as a creator yourself. There are creators who will reach out and say, "Okay, we're going to New York City. Could you get us a hotel or whatever?" Sure. Yeah. We'll reach out to the PR team, try and get a media rate or get it comped. Okay, you get a comp. They're requiring you to post and do two stories. When you think about what creators actually get paid to post and do two stories, compared to the value of the hotel room, the cost of the hotel room is like three, four hundred bucks, and a creator would get paid, I don't know, five or ten thousand bucks for that, maybe more, maybe less. I'm just ballparking.
And so creators actually are willing to give hotels and airlines so much more for so little cost, but they still haven't done anything in that space. So any airlines out there or hotel groups, give me a shout.
Scott:
I'm laughing as you say that because your post, literally the other day was like, "I'm in the Shangri-La. I remember this smell. It takes me back." I'm like, this would be a great ad for Shangri-La. He's literally... This beautiful door that I'm knocking on, throwing back to The Bachelor. I'm just like, "This would be a solid ad right now for Shangri-La. They're taking it up on this."
Jason:
I didn't even get a media rate.
Scott:
That's so funny.
Kwame:
The hotel partnership thing is always funny to me because you're right. You'll get a hotel. I went to New York for a Big Brother event, actually, which is really funny. I got invited to a lip syncing contest for charity. And so I reached out to a bunch of New York hotels, and the one hotel that reached back out was Hard Rock. And it was actually a really fun partnership because they did add on a couple of things. They were like, "We'll add a meal voucher so you talk about this." They had this new Lionel Messi burger and they wanted to talk about it. But I think, thinking back to that partnership, it is really funny because I got a good deal out of that one, I think. So I was (in)Times Square. They gave me all this stuff. But when I think about how much they gave me, they gave me a meal voucher and a really nice room. They let me rent out a bunch of guitars. It's this whole thing.
And then I think about going to, I don't know, I don't want to dog any hotels at all. So we'll just say a Hilton or something, right? It's in the middle of nowhere. And they're like, "Yeah, sure. We'll give you a room for two nights, but we want three Reels." I'm like, "Come on."
Jason:
No way. They shoot their own Reels, not there.
Kwame:
Yeah, the room is like a hundred and fifty bucks a night. I'm okay. I'll pay that. But it is funny to me.
Jason:
Well, especially when it's a tax deduction anyway. With your business, that travel, it's a tax deduction anyway, paying for it. So it's like, what are we doing?
Kwame:
Yeah, right? I'm going to get that money back anyway. It is funny. Speaking of Hilton. So my buddy, I guess, Brett, we all know Brett, but he has a hotel partnership going on right now. I think it is Hilton, actually. And it's really funny because I always look at it and I'm like, "Man, I always thought that I'd be the travel influencing." So there's a little part of me that's a little jealous of that one, but I love that for him.
Jason:
I think we actually... I'm pretty sure that deal came from us. And I was like, "Can you also call them for me?" And they're like, "No, they just want Brett." Like, Great.
What's next for Jason in 2024?
Scott:
I love those full circle moments because obviously we're in an influencer marketing space. And I followed the Scott Family. It's like Roger Scott and Talia Scott. They're funny, they do dance, they tell jokes. And then they're on a Royal Caribbean Cruise. And I was like, "I wonder if this is a sponsored ad?" And I go ask our team and we ran the ad with Royal Caribbean and got them on there. And I was like, I clearly need to go pay more attention.
But it's this awesome moment where you feel like you're in the moment of relevant pop culture. You're helping to put these big brands out there. It's really cool to see that come full circle. But as we work to wrap up our time, I'm curious on the horizon. You talked about your focus for '24. It's now beginning of May. What are the biggest things in the rest of the year you're looking forward to? What's got your eye and what's on the docket?
Jason:
Yes, so the podcast has been picking up in a big way, so really focused on that. We added a second episode called "More Than Money", which has been really cool. What's interesting is we're generating ad revenue from ads, but we're also generating ad revenues from working with founders who are looking for a platform to, in a very educational way, promote not only their business, but the industry. And that's become a big revenue source for us.
And we are in the midst of planning a fall podcast tour, similar to what we do with the book tour. I'm really excited about continuing to hone in on the brand of the podcast because we're three years in, over 150 episodes, 10-million plus downloads. And it's really like the wheels are starting to spin. And it usually takes that time. It takes the year, two, even three to really build momentum. So focused on that.
Of course, the agency, we're big on scaling right now, which is important. Then I've noticed a lot more speaking engagements are coming up. So the speaking realm is definitely something I'm interested in. And through the PR, our time of the book, I got to do a lot of live TV, and I just really, really enjoyed it. And even if it's a correspondant's perspective, I would like to get involved more in that in some capacity. So our team's in the process of building a reel and trying to get some pitches out there for that as well.
And then it's just funny how different projects pop up. You just never know. We just had... There's a TV show I'm on right now. It's "Going Home with Tyler Cameron", and we're building and remodelling an Airbnb and then renting it. So all different odd things come up here and there.
But I think all those things, all of it, connect to continuing to build the brand and trying to work on that every day to drop into my authentic self, continue to build it for what makes sense for me, and pursue the avenues that also just create the passion, because without it, there's just no direction. So those are the big things and there's always a curveball here or there. That's the exciting part of this industry. And we'll see. We'll see what happens. But this year has been, I think it's on its way to be the biggest and best year yet. And also on the personal side, really diving into, okay, the first five months were a full sprint. You've done a lot. Trying to take some time to be like, okay, what's next on the personal side, too. So just all the things, all the things, Scott.
Scott:
That's awesome.
Kwame:
That is awesome. You know what, Jason? Thanks again so much for taking your time. Obviously, you're a really, really busy guy, but you see the benefit and everything. So I hope you saw the benefit in today. And hopefully one of those benefits, I don't know, is a partnership with some hotel or airline.
Jason:
I love it. I love it. Let's manifest this right now.
Kwame:
Yeah, we're going to make it happen. But with that being said, thanks so much for joining us for Beyond Influence today. We really, really appreciate the time. I think we learned a ton and we're looking forward to seeing everything that you keep creating, man. Just keep crushing it. And we know that there's incredible things to have for you.
Jason:
I love it. Kwame, Scott, thank you guys for having me. Congrats on this endeavor. And looking forward to what's next with all of us because I'm sure we'll do some cool things.
Scott:
Awesome. Sounds great. Well, thanks, everyone. We'll catch you on the next episode.