Transcript
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Kwame:
Hello, everybody. Welcome to today's episode of Beyond Influence. I am Kwame Appiah, one of your co-hosts. Today we have a new co-host with us. I'm very excited to have her on. Do you want to introduce yourself?
Lauren:
Absolutely. Hey, everybody. My name is Lauren, and I'm the Head of Talent Acquisition here at Later. I'm really excited to dive into today's conversation.
Kwame:
Awesome. We are very fortunate to have a trailblazer in the influencer marketing industry with us today. Someone who was way ahead of our time because she started a company in 2018 and had it sold before some of us even knew what Instagram Reel was. Someone who definitely has a lot to contribute to us today. Thank you for being here, and welcome, Jessy. How are you doing today, Jessy?
Jessy:
I'm so good. Thank you guys for having me. I've been looking forward to this all day, and I'm so happy to be here. Thanks, guys!
Kwame:
Awesome. We love to start off with just a little bit of catch-up. I know the holiday weekend just came by. Did you do anything fun and special for your holiday weekend?
Jessy:
I lived in the pool. I'm in a unique situation in Brooklyn, New York, where we have a pool, so I lived in it for the whole week with my stepdaughter and pool floaties, and our dog giving us eyes, like, 'You're not going to ask me to come in there, right?' Even though we are dying to have her be a pool dog, she is not.
So, yeah, we just chilled in the pool. What about you guys?
Kwame:
Well, for me, I went to my wife's family's cabin in the San Juans. If anyone's ever been to the state of Washington, the San Juans is a must-go. I think it's about 3 or 4 islands. And on at least 2 or 3 of them, you can basically stand at the beach and whale watch. So it's pretty incredible. We spent the entire time there.
I was in a donut-eating contest with about 40 other people. I got second place because my last donut broke into crumbs. I had to try to scoop it out, and by the time I was there, the other guy had eaten all of his donuts. So I'm a little sad. I'll be back next year, but it was an incredible 4th of July for me. How about you, Lauren?
Lauren:
Well, I'm up here in Canada, so I was celebrating Canada Day on July 1st. Up here in Vancouver, British Columbia, I was lucky enough to have a friend who has a boat. So we spent it driving around, playing Beer Island, and spending time in the water, which was really great. It was one of the first kind of sunny, hot days up here in British Columbia.
Definitely took advantage of that. And nice to have friends with a boat and not have to be the one to upkeep the boat. So, definitely just kind of that.
Jessy:
Those are good friends. You want to keep those friends.
Lauren:
Yeah, absolutely.
Kwame:
It is. It is a rule in my friendship book. Always have friends with boats. So let's all make sure we keep that in our back pocket. But, as we get into this today, Jessy, I listened to your last episode. I think the episode was 'Man in it, something in Atlanta, Made in Atlanta.'
Jessy:
Remind me it was with our Atlanta ambassadors. So we just wanted to, like, explore that chapter of where men had an event coming up and, you know, they were like, we're the underdog. Like people underestimate us all the time. We're not in New York, we're not in LA. And I was like, ooh, tell me more.
So we just chatted with them for a while. It's really interesting.
Kwame:
That's awesome. And before you got into the episode itself, you talked about something very personal, very private. That is something that, as I got married and started hanging out with more married people, I realized it's quite the journey that a lot of people are going through. So, you announce something very special. So I'm going to hand it off to you and not break the news myself.
Do you mind opening up about that?
Jessy:
I announce that we are having a baby, and I'm so excited. Every time I say it, I get chills every time. It's been a long time in the making as well, which I've also kind of opened up about on the podcast, the whole idea that it was easier for me to go through because people had shared their struggles to get pregnant and with infertility and all that.
And if I can do it for one person, I would be honored to be able to help them through their journey. So it was like two years in the making, and we're having a little boy.
Kwame:
Oh.
Jessy:
We're very excited. He's going to be an honorary member of Women in Influencer Marketing. So we're so thrilled. My stepdaughter, who is eight and a half and will be nine when he is born, is going to have her first sibling, which is really exciting.
Lauren:
Congratulations. What month are you due in December?
Jessy:
As of right now, it's like the beginning of December. So, yeah, it'll be I'm hoping it's like right between Thanksgiving and right before Christmas, Hanukkah, and the holidays. So, yeah, we're just excited. Someone was asking me today like, 'How are you doing? Like, how are you feeling?' And I was like, I mean, I'm taking naps every day, like, I'm two years old.
And I didn't not. But I say, like, as you know, quote-unquote bad as some of the symptoms feel like, honestly, I'm just like, I'm just I'm like, I'm showing up. I'm happy to be here. Like, it just took a long time to get here. So we're just very, very grateful.
Kwame:
That is amazing. And I know that a big part of going through an experience is knowing that you have a community around you. And so thank you so much for sharing that, because I'm sure people are either, you know, pregnant now or trying to conceive. And I think the mention of, you know, going through the entire process and some issues with infertility, like those are definitely like really, really big points for a lot of people.
You know, there are resources out there. There are people who are going through what you're going through. So definitely, you know, be positive about it. Stay encouraged because there are obviously great things on the other side there.
Jessy:
And also even just knowing that there are nontraditional paths to get to the same place, you know like I'm 37, I'll be turning 38 when we have him. And as they call me, you know, they talk about like, if you're over 35, it's like a geriatric pregnancy. I mean, the crazy things that people say. And then, you know, Kourtney Kardashian gets pregnant.
I think she's like 44. You hear about all these people getting pregnant. Their 40s some of their 50s. Like, I don't want to be, you know, running around in my 60s like an eight-year-old or something. So that's something to think about. But like, I'm also happy that I got to focus on my career for, you know, 30-plus years.
I mean, not all 30 years, you know what I mean? Like, until my 30s, and I feel more prepared than ever to have a baby. So if you, if you talk to me in my 20s, I was, like, self-proclaimed like, didn't want kids. Actually, to be very honest with you guys, I was like, I don't know about that.
I was just like, I don't think that's on my cards. I don't really want that. And then you know how life goes. Like, you meet the right person. All that stuff and things sort of change. So did for me at least.
Kwame:
Yeah. That is, that is definitely beautiful. seeing all that come, come together. So I think as we transition to talking a bit more about the influencer marketing and, and career side of things, you know, you got your start quite a while ago and I'd love to just open up a little bit on, you know, how your career got started and how it shaped to be in the field of influencer marketing.
Jessy:
Yeah. So I feel like everybody has such a different path. So it's such a good question. Like very few people, you know, frickin study this in school or have, you know, even people to look up to say, like, I want to emulate, you know, their career path. And mine was certainly windy, but I saw the through line.
I tell people I'm very open like I didn't study marketing in school, like I was a theater major. I was always on the performing side of things. And then I was behind the scenes directing and producing when I moved to New York, and I loved it. And, the transition into influencer marketing was specifically because I ended up representing talent.
So I switched over to being a talent agent, first for actors and then at that talent agency, which is like old school. You guys like, have been around since the 70s. Like they're one of those, like, you know, I don't know, a little antiquated. I launched their influencer division. So we represented, we had a whole roster of, like, really incredible influencers when, like, none of them, very few of them were represented at the time.
Then I left to start my own agency and sold like a couple of years later. And then the whole while I had had this, like, passion projects never monetized. That is all. and it was a networking group that we named on a whim, which is short for Women in Influencer Marketing, and that started in 2017.
But again, like the Total Passion Project, you know, it fell into work, though. I was always trying to get deals for my clients. I was trying to meet people in this new industry and living in New York. There's never been a shortage of networking and groups like that, but I'd go in and tell them what industry I was in and they're like, well, that's cool.
Like, I don't know what to do with that, you know what I mean? So I was like, I need, I want to meet more similar people who like, get it. So I've never been that type of person to sort of sit back and wait for things to happen. I just don't believe they will be that way. So we made it happen.
So we just invited a bunch of people to events and you know, we lost a day to ourselves. But we, you know, we started a Facebook group back in the day. And when I ended up selling the talent agency, that was the point. I was like, I mean, I could go work for someone else again. It had been a while at that point, or I can just like, really give this thing a go and like, you know, really give it the time and attention that I had always wanted to, but I never had.
So like at the end of 2020 and the craziest time is, I mean, like, officially launched the membership and that's like the closest iteration of what this community is today, which is, you know, a networking organization community more so than anything for women who hire an advocate for influencers.
Kwame:
No, that is amazing. I think, as we discover the different areas in which people can really feel support within their careers, I think any time that you can take a group and you can advocate for and you can, you know, empower, and in any way help shape ideas that they're having as well. I think that you're making a mark in your industry.
And so I think that that's always a great way to focus things. Now, when you did start your career and kind of, you know, started to shape things that I know, you know, you went through going through and starting a company and then selling it. but through that process, you know, what did you learn about starting a company, especially within this specific industry?
Jessy:
Yeah, I mean, I've learned lots of things since then. I learn things going through the process. And we couldn't talk honestly for hours about that. I would say, you know, some of the main things I learned are things that are done well, like things that are the most meaningful, the most impactful, and some of the best work you're going to do.
The way it always takes longer than you think it went. And, you know, it just takes longer. So, as somebody who's a little bit more on the impatient side of things, that's been a big pill to swallow. my first business that I went into, I had two business partners as well.
So that was an interesting experience. And I've found that since then, I'm a little less trusting candidly of going into business with people. It's a really huge commitment. And I went into it fairly blind, to be honest. things didn't quite work out between us. And, I learned so much from it. And so now going into, you know, the couple businesses that I have today, I also have a consultancy like I've learned that, like whoever you bring in like there should be a trial, a test and learn, a long period of time where, you know, in order to earn that trust and to know that you guys gel and work
Well together before, you know, all that trust is given, you know, any, every entrepreneur I've ever met who has their own business, like, their business is their baby. Like it's you put your blood, your sweat, your tears into it. And so I get very protective of it. And I think that part of that like I'll pat myself on the back a little bit, is why I have such an incredible team now, because we're just very strategic about who we bring on, who we bring into the fold.
Then, you know, we want to make sure they're just as passionate about the mission. They're, you know, they see a similar future for what we can become. They're energized in the same way. And if they're not like that, that is fine. Of course. It's just not the right fit. So, yeah, I don't know. Those are a couple of lessons I've learned along the way.
Lauren:
Yeah. And I find it really interesting how you mentioned that you kind of it sounds almost like kind of fell into the influencer marketing space and you had a be less traditional path into, you know, maybe not studying marketing, starting in the theater space, which I'm sure there were a ton of transferable skills and kind of foundational pieces that you learned in, in, your early theater days that transitioned into, you know, your talent, you know, manager job.
And, I'm curious, you said that you were the first to kind of build that influencer, talent function within, that initial agency you worked out. So, what was the kind of need that you saw in the market? Because you were really definitely a trailblazer in terms of, you know, launching, getting it in earlier in, in the space.
So, yeah. Well, I love to hear kind of how that came to be.
Jessy:
Yeah. I'm so transparent about this. Like I'm not necessarily your ideal person, but I'm a really good listener. So my best friend at the time, who had also worked at that same agency, left to go work in casting. And, you know, we just get lunch, dinner, or whatever. And I would tell her I'm like, oh God, like the people who work around me like they're my parents' age and they're not going anywhere.
And they've been there for like 30 years. And at the time I was like 25, you know, and I'm like, I just where, where do I fit in here? I have worked so many, you know, so many years. At that point. I was there for six years. and I was making, you know, very little money. And I was like, I just wonder what's the path for me here?
And she was the one who said, you know, we're doing all these castings and we're getting these specs where they're looking to cast influencers and we don't even know who to go to because, no, these people aren't even responsive. And when they are, they don't know the business side of things and can be really interesting for something for you to explore.
I mean, I had previously been like, what if I represent circus acts? Well, I'm not even joking. What if I represent comedians? Like I was trying to find a space for myself versus like, following something that I'm like, particularly passionate about. I was like, no one represents those people. And I'm like, I want to. I actually don't think I do at all.
So when she suggested, like, you should look into influencers, I was like, that's so interesting. Like it just felt fresh and new and it felt like it had so much like open space at the time. This was years ago. and so I explored it, and luckily the company that I worked for was, like, supportive enough of me exploring it.
They're like, all right, I mean, do this job full time and, you know, we'll support you doing this on the side. and then honestly, I just made them more money than they could have ever imagined, honestly. And they had to pay attention. and it was quite the environment of like said, it was such a boys club.
I mean, we're talking about like, old Hollywood-type people. And so me coming in like at the time, I was maybe 27 or something. I was in my 20s and like, you know, they were like, yeah, well, we'll give her a little, some, you know, some leeway to do whatever she wants to play around with and do.
And we ended up building something that exists to this day at that agency. And like, it was, you know, sometimes you need a fresh perspective, whether it's young or, you know, an experience or whatever it is to say like, this is the path, like this is where the possibilities and the opportunities are. And I was hungry, I was really hungry.
So we made it happen.
Kwame:
Yes. Lovely. You know, there are a couple of things that you said that I really want to revisit. I think the first thing is, you know, knowing your strengths and having awareness, like, hey, you're not the ideas person, but you are someone who can take an idea and execute that hack out of it, you know? So I think it's great to find people around us that compliment us in a big way.
And I think another thing that you mentioned is the people around you were solidified in their roles and they weren't going anywhere. Right. And so if you see that there's an opportunity, or maybe if that opportunity doesn't exist yet, you have to create it right? Like it's not going to just come find you. And I think that that's something that's really powerful about your story is you saw that you were in this space, you were in this area where there wasn't going to be much opportunity for you going forward.
You weren't making as much as you wanted to. You aren't being given as much controller autonomy as you wanted to. And you said, you know what? I'm going to create that. And so a lot of things that I love about that. And you've been in this industry for a good bit and you know a lot about it, you know, and I would like to know what are some big things that you've seen change along the way since you started.
Like how is it that someone can step into the industry now and make an impact now that it's becoming more saturated?
Jessy:
I have just been saying for the past few years, especially, that the influencer marketing industry really needs to mature. So I feel like for a long time, like at the inception of our industry, there was so much there was such a boom like there's so much money being flooded into the industry, you know, creators being thrown more money than they've ever seen.
And was there a ton of ROI on that? Not in most instances, and sometimes, but not it wasn't common. Yeah. And so I think that like nowadays, you know, where influencer marketing felt pandemic proof for a long time, I think that a lot of people are finally, years later, feeling like the rippling effect of whether it's like a Covid, you know, response or, you know, just like, response to the economy or, you know, mismanagement of things within a company where people are starting to get let go and people, you know, budgets are getting slashed.
And I think that it's really important that people are just honest and upfront about that because what we do individually in our respective brands agency is like really, truly can uplift the entire industry as a whole. You know, that's like really part of the ethos of where, you know, it's about uplifting the entire community, supporting each other no matter what's in your in like you can really make an impact.
And, you know, if I do a solid for you now, like I know you'll have my back later. so I think that, you know, one of the areas of opportunity is for fresh eyes, fresh perspective. But I think people are thinking more about the industry as a business and thinking about scalability, which is very challenging for a lot of people in influencer marketing because it's so relationship-based.
Right. So how do you scale a service business, for example? It's not easy if even possible, you scale a relationship business? Same thing. But there are a lot of ways where you can scale it to a certain extent, but still keep the core of what relationships are, of what influencer marketing is, which is all about relationships and trust, you know, in selling.
And, I'm also very excited by creators who are more entrepreneurial these days and just thinking about additional revenue streams and additional ways to build businesses. And I'm impressed by the entrepreneurs who are powering the creator economy. On the other side of things they don't necessarily consider themselves creators, but they're building really cool tech. They're building, you know, things to just like, help elevate what everybody's doing on a day-to-day basis.
So just thinking about it, like in those terms, approaching the work in that way, I think would make a really positive influence and change on the, on the industry.
Lauren:
Yeah. And I love that. When it is all about empowering women and females in the influencer marketing space. And, you know, I was looking through their website and seeing the different, you know, brands and companies that you partner with. How do you kind of go about choosing what partners or businesses to partner with?
Jessy:
So it's a great question. And, you know, in different ways, I mean, you know, I'll give you a little peek behind the scenes, I guess, if you guys are interested, as I know some creators listen to this podcast, I'm sure. And, just business folks. So you know, we monetize it a couple of different ways. We monetize through membership.
but we also monetize through sponsorships. So I never in a million years met a girl who started out as a talent agent for so many years, never imagined, like myself or my company, having sponsorships. It just was very foreign to me. I love being on the other side of things, negotiating those deals and facilitating them. so now we have a team of salespeople who go out to, you know, tech companies who go out to we've had lawyer sponsors in the creator economy.
We've had, like, all sorts of types of businesses who just want to get in front of our community. And our community is incredibly niche, right? It's not even just like marketers. It's influencer marketers. It's not all influencer marketers. She's a woman in influencer marketing. We do have men in the group. But that's another thing. But, you know, if people want to sponsor us, people would want to sponsor any community, no matter how nice you are.
Like there is totally a market, a viable market for you to sell to. So when people say like, oh, I don't know if I can ever get, you know, a sponsor for my very niche community. I'm here to tell you it's completely possible. you just got to know what you're selling, you know, and you got to really know your community.
You have to keep as engaged as possible. And, you know, the more that you can actually influence them, you know, to buy certain things and to trust your recommendations, the better. But yeah, we pick companies because some of them sponsor us. And, you know, when we get companies that aren't a good fit, it's very obvious.
and, you know, there are also partnerships where we've started them. And halfway through, I'm just like, this isn't working, this isn't working. And to not be afraid to pull the trigger in a very polite, respectful way, because, like, we, you know, we've entered into relationships for a whole year and a lock and change in a year. A lot, a lot can change.
So, you know, being, I think one of the beauties of having a small business or being an entrepreneur is the ability to pivot pretty quickly, versus having to, you know, go through red tape and bureaucracy of a large company. And so the faster you're able to pivot based on whatever you're observing, the more that your company will just benefit from it.
Lauren:
Yeah, I love that you've built this community where, you know, people know what they're entering into. It's women in influencer marketing. It's really finding that niche community for connection. And, I imagine that you're probably quite protective of that community and maintaining the integrity of what you've really built. which is incredible. Do you feel like or how do you feel that maybe brands and how these could better support women influencers or women in influencer marketing?
Is there anything that you feel like brands and agencies could be doing differently?
Jessy:
I mean, how much time do we have? I yeah, that's could I mean, look, I just think that there are a lot of voices that should be heard. And you can define that in so many ways. And I just think that, like, not just hearing those voices, but, you know, really partnering with people to understand, like, what is the best way to have that message out?
How can I support that message getting out, like, and just making it more of a partnership? I understand brands are paying bills, brands are, you know, paying the paycheck. I understand of course I've worked on those ties like I understand. But what I can just say is, you know, the best sort of partnerships, whether it's campaigns or less traditional partnerships that happen, the ones that are just so good are the ones where like, it doesn't feel prescriptive, it doesn't feel like I have to do a script for you to read, you know, like, and those that are thinking outside the box, like, I've loved seeing some really cool activations these days with like in-person experiences. I think, like in a post-Covid world, people are really excited to get, you know, back in person. I'm like such a homebody. And if I even want to go out and hang with people like I know other people is because I'm just such a homebody. So I'm just excited for people to think outside the box more.
There's such a long way to go. I'm like the biggest critic of our industry, as much as like, I love it. but I just want to see us all succeed. So, yeah, going off on a tangent and hope that's helpful.
Kwame:
Any and all words and information are helpful for sure, so we appreciate it all. And I think with all of the partnerships that you've now forged with the people that you've met along the way in the companies and organizations that you've gotten to work with since we're talking about doing things the right way, have you had anybody who was just done it so great that you're like, this is a memorable experience?
Jessy:
I've definitely had a few. I've been very fortunate. And like, those are the people that I'm like, can we continue? Can we move forward? Can we keep it? Can we do this again? yeah. I mean, one that comes to mind are just, you know, human relationships that have just like, continue to blossom over the years, like someone that I partnered with one time and, I went back to her and was like, I'm working with, like, a competitor.
And, I mean, I'll tell you the story. I was like, I'm working with a competitor of yours. And like, I would just honestly rather work with you on, like, I can easily just, like, take a paycheck from them, but like, I like, I'm endorsing this company. And I would so much rather endorse you. I believe in what you're doing.
I've hired them personally, to work with. And, like, I just really believe in her. And, you know, we both are in Brooklyn. We're both moms, like, I don't know, we just connected. So, you know, that's one thing that comes to mind for one, instance. And then another is just like there's a company that I worked with, the past like six months where it was the opposite of prescriptive, like, they were like, all right, we just want, like, I'm like a LinkedIn nerd.
So I love, like, people are like, yeah, I'm on Instagrammer. I'm like, I'm on LinkedIn. Or like, I don't know what to say, but like, that's my place because it's, you know, you could be, interestingly enough, you can be creative there. but, you know, it's all professional and business-related. So I love diving into business. Anyways, on there, and, and our slack community, he was like, yeah, like, we'll give you a, like a topic and just like, tell us your opinions on it.
And they were really thought-provoking topics that are just like really timely. They're like pain points for people in the industry. And I think that I mean, they really resonated with me and with other people as well. So I think that just addressing things head-on is important. When I used to represent influencers, I remember so many brands were like, I don't know if they're brand safe enough or like, oh, I don't know if they like, we did a little bit of digging and they once three years ago posted about, I don't know, fill in the blank that was like fairly innocuous, but they weren't willing to take the risk.
And I think that's why there's some brands that are just these legacy brands that will always be that way. You do you. But I think in the world that we live in, more people than not just really appreciate things like candor and, you know, people being real about things, how they feel, what they're observing, things like that.
So the more that partners can just like really, truly encourage that, no matter how off-brand, not off-brand, but like how unbranded safe it is or, you know, I think that it'll just naturally get a better reaction. I think, you know, we have to think about, like, what's our goal here? Like, what are we all here to do?
And if the goal is to reach a bunch of people and get people talking and, you know, make an impact, then you know, that's a good way to do it. Let's just be real about whatever the topic is and, and have a way that people can relate to what you're talking about.
Kwame:
With trying to, you know, stay authentic and also have great true relationships that build in and are genuine, but also do create benefits right on both ends. I think that's what I've always thought that that's the best way to handle business. I've always thought that that's also the best way to thrive. Right. Because if you both are in it and you're both enjoying and you're both happy, like, did things just happen?
You know, so I'm.
Jessy:
Not 100 for that, but also say like, I don't know if anyone else has this issue, but like.
I've also hired people, like in my personal life, like my stepdaughter's tutor or like, I don't know, just like people that we've, like, hired in my, in our personal life, but we like and there's like a business relationship there. And then I'm like, I kind of want to invite them to like my baby shower. Is that weird?
Like, I kind of want to, like, invite them over to, like, swim at the pool, like, and I used to I bring that up because I used to be in my, like, early career, incredibly black and white about that sort of stuff and be like, I do not mix business with pleasure. I like that there's a clear line especially I think as a woman sometimes it's like it used to be very important and very top of mind to be able to do that.
But I've, I've found that like, you know, we started this conversation talking about how men have a baby. Like, I wouldn't talk about that normally, like in a business sort of environment, but I think that you're spot on, which is like the more that you can just be real authentic and just like really ex, like really put your true self out there, like that's how connections are made.
I'm like, oh my God. Like Lauren was awesome. Kwami was awesome. Like in the future, I'm like, how do I partner with them on something? Because like we had a great conversation. If we just sat here and were robots, it wouldn't be as memorable. Like, you know.
Lauren:
I couldn't agree more. And I think, you know, there's there is so much content out there and it's really easy to tell when something is not authentic or when someone is really showing up as themselves and talking about something that they're passionate about, whether it be a product, a service, a, you know, a company, a brand, it's you really important to, to come across as authentic and people can tell I think it's, it's becoming, you know, very clear.
Jessy:
But I can also talk to the elephant in the room, which is like, he likes it, it's the internet, y'all. Like you're going to piss people off, too, you know, like, I have, like, a microcosm of a following, smaller than a microcosm of the following. And I have, like, had sleepless nights about something that I said that pissed somebody off.
And that snowballed. And I'm like, whoa, I can't even imagine what, like an actual influencer goes through. You have to have real thick skin. You're always going to have people who don't like what you say like there's always going to be a camp of people. You have to be okay with that in order to be in this business.
But it's interesting because, like, for myself, I used to be very uncomfortable putting myself out there and was just given so much advice from people that I really respect, which is, you know, maybe you're not a typical like a fashion influencer, our beauty influencer, like, I barely have makeup on right now, but I'm like, I would like to be able to have my business thrive.
And in this day and age, no matter what your business is, it's very beneficial to feel comfortable being out there, putting yourself out there, which for some of us introverts is like not comfortable people. but the benefits outweigh it, you know? And, I just, I think that having the opportunity to share things that are genuinely important to you, are meaningful to you, sort of like, got me out of my head, right?
I'm like, what do I talk about? And it's like, like about what matters to you. And don't be afraid of what people think, because you're always going to have people that disagree on everything. You can say the sky is blue and people are like, no, it's not.
It is not blue. And I'm like, okay, like I can't win. So, you know, just getting comfortable in all of that, which is a process. But, it's very beneficial, I think.
Kwame:
Yeah. I mean, I can't tell you. I mean, I feel like, you know, opinions have gotten significantly more positive and consistent over my journey as, as a creator or as an online presence or whatever, whichever way you want to put it. I think one thing that, like, will always stay is just the heavy, just volume and diversity in opinion.
Right? And that's one thing about the internet. Now, more than it's ever been, is that so many more people have access to it and so many more people have access to each other, you know. And so I think about this all the time because I used to get really upset, not like I yes, I get upset with stuff that comes on, you know, is written in my comments and things, but I've actually grown a pretty thick skin.
I either just delete the comment or sometimes I just don't even care anymore. and it took a while to get there, but I sometimes get upset with the opinions that people have on other people, and I see it in their comments and I want to say something. But then I think about the volume. There's just billions of people with access and they're from all different parts of the world.
They were brought up in a very, very specific way. And so somebody all the way from the right side of the world will not think the same way as somebody all the way from the left side of the world. So you have to be okay with someone having a different opinion. And even if it makes you angry inside and it's dead wrong, just move on.
Because at the end of the day, like the internet, once you put that phone down, you can walk away, live your life, and go grab a daiquiri. Whatever works for you.
Jessy:
Spicy margarita. You're like the worst. The comment, the spice, the other margarita.
Kwame:
Exactly. That's the spice.
Jessy:
The spice is 100% like. And you know, you have more good to put in the world than trying to change someone's mind. Who you don't even know. You know, like, it's just assumed it's not going to work, you know, and there's so many others there's so much more good to put out there. But you don't look like having a platform is like having a microphone.
You know, it's having the opportunity to really put some good out there in the world. And, you know, we all define what that is in different ways. Right? Some people just want to entertain. And that's a lot of good. You know some people want to teach. That's amazing. We define it in different ways. But I do think if you don't take advantage of that opportunity, whether you're literally influencing one person, no joke, or hundreds of thousands of people, it's just such a missed opportunity.
They think you can translate that into life, you know, like no matter what it is, but, you know, it is. It's a huge opportunity to be able to impact people and reach people. So like, take advantage of it.
Kwame:
Yeah.
Lauren:
Yeah. And, you know, with your community really focused on supporting women, are there any opportunities that you really see in the influencer marketing space for women in particular?
Jessy:
I mean, all of them. What do you mean?
Kwame:
Like, yeah.
Jessy:
We can do anything because we're amazing. Lauren. You're amazing. I'm amazing. Amazing. There we go. Wow. But, you know, look, I'm here amplifying women and all the opportunities. I, you know, I just, I, I came up with, you know, not great mentors. I'm always the first person to say that, like, I was unfortunate in that way. I, you know, I didn't have great parents growing up.
I didn't have a great family life, and I didn't have great mentors. My mentors, quote-unquote, were catty, you know, women who are like, there's, you know, one opportunity, it's you or me. And so I was taught incorrectly. I was taught that this is the only way. And in the back of my mind, I was always like, there has to be some other way of doing this.
Like, I don't necessarily have the answer, but like, I question that, I was like, this just sucks. Like for all of us, like, this is our you know, this isn't going to get us anywhere. and so, you know, like, again, like, if you have an idea, you got to run with it. Because what I found by running with this idea where, you know, we're networking group at, like, all support each other, it's not like, you know, there's a class of, you know, the senior ones you emulate and the junior ones you haze, you know, like it was the opposite of that as like, we all have something to learn from each other.
It's a very unique industry in which you can be incredibly successful and be young in age. And I think that's a wonderful thing. At 37, I'm worried that I'm going to age out of this industry in some short period of time, you know, and that's something real to think about. I think that like open-mindedness and open-mindedness to learn and to keep learning and like that enjoyment of learning won't have the age out of it.
But that's what I'm telling myself. I hope it's the truth. but yeah, so I think that, you know, whatever you want to achieve professionally, is totally possible. And I, I'm just excited to just see, you know, more forward-thinking, you know, people at the forefront of, you know, great companies.
Kwame:
Yeah. That is amazing. and one thing that you said that I really love is like, there's no senior, there's no junior. Because, like, when I think about influencing, I think about people who got their start, you know, less than a year ago, trying to become influencers who have learned so much, where people who've been in it for five, six, seven years might not know that thing.
Right? We all have something to offer each other. So if you go in with an open mind and mindset, you're looking to learn and also give. So that means you're hopefully going to learn and give from the other person as well. And so yeah, I mean, I think that that's a really important way to make sure that we're all continuously growing and as we get closer to the end of this conversation there are a couple of things that I wanted to know from you before, you know, we call it a day.
So one thing is you've been through a lot of different parts of this journey. You've been in someone's organization, you've started your own organization, you've sold an organization. You've started a new one. Are there any, I guess, like anything that you would tell yourself if you looked back, in the beginning of this, that, you know, you would maybe change or do differently?
Jessy:
Is there anything I would do differently? Yeah, that's a great question. I want to answer it thoughtfully. you know, I want to sit here and be like, no, you know, like, I don't regret a thing, but yeah, there, there, Daph. I mean, hindsight is a powerful thing. yeah, I mean, I would trust myself a little.
I would trust myself a lot more. because that's one thing that what you just said reminded me of, which I think is like a beautiful thing of, like, the next generation, which is I feel like they're, I don't know, I'm a millennial. So, I feel like when I was coming up in my career, there was this trust in myself because, well, the assumption is that everybody more senior than me knows everything and so much more than I do.
And so I'd have to sit here and like, soak it all in and get to this point that I've worked hard enough to, like, get to that level. And I, I feel as if there's been a shift in that. And there and the shift, I think, is it comes down to trusting yourself. Right. like, I'm an, like, egoless person.
I think we can all learn from each other. So I certainly don't. I would never say like, you know, you come into the room, you like, oh, I like, you know, you don't have anything to learn here. But I do think that there is a healthy amount of trust in yourself that could really help you just progress faster.
Like, I just think back to all those years when I sat timidly and, you know, waited for this knowledge to suddenly impart in myself to be able to, like, say, all right, now, here's your permission, go in your career and I just think to if I would have trusted myself or been more vocal earlier on, I just feel like I would have been even further ahead than I am now and therefore able to achieve even more.
So again, that's the impatient part of me coming on. But I would just trust myself more and try to be more comfortable in expressing my ideas and my concerns. and just, you know, expressing myself more.
Kwame:
Yeah. And, you know, that obviously is a really important part of all. Just about anything that we do is like the confidence in ourselves, knowing and reassuring ourselves as you go through your journey that like, I'm doing good, I'm doing alright. Like I know what I'm doing. And I think, a part of that comes, or the difficulty in having that comes from a little bit of imposter syndrome.
And I think we all experience it in the cool thing that I've learned about imposter syndrome. You are like anybody who is growing at a rapid rate, has it? Right? You know, we even talked to our CEO, Scott Wright. He sometimes talks about being put in this seat or it's like, oh my gosh, like, am I doing everything right?
And so like, everyone's going to have imposter syndrome as they're going through their journey. If you're not having it, you're probably not growing fast enough, which means you need to make sure you're pushing yourself a little bit more. And hey, in certain parts of life, that's okay. If you don't have that, you just want to relax because we do deserve a break as well.
So a little bit of this, a little bit of that, you know, but you know, to wrap things up here, one important question that I want to ask is, as you've gone through this journey and you see things coming ahead of you, where do you see influencer marketing going in the next, you know, five years or so, like, and it doesn't even have to be five.
What's the next year? Because this thing grows so quickly. Right?
Jessy:
I was gonna say five years. Oh my gosh, it's like a lifetime away. I'm here for it. But, yeah, I mean, the next year, like, I, you know, it's a really hot, hard and challenging job market right now. So I've seen, like, a lot of folks, like, in our community, friends of mine who, you know, were part of layoffs, students, no fault of their own, such talented people who are struggling to find their next role.
So what I would like to see selfishly, are more of these incredible people go into business for themselves and not wait around for these opportunities. And I have seen a really interesting resurgence of folks who are part of our community. And they're like, I'm going to be a consultant. I'm going to go off and start my own agency, small business, you know, fill in the blank.
But, you know, there's this mystery around it and this fear of, you know, I literally had someone today who she was like, you know, I'm used to making a couple hundred thousand dollars a year. Like, do you think that that's possible? If I work for myself and I'm like, I'm never a 100% type person, but I'm gonna sit here knowing you.
I'm like, yes, I'm 100%. And you should be making more than that. Because also, let's be real, you have to now pay for your health insurance. You have overhead, you have expenses, things like that. But like there's so much more opportunity. Like I work for myself. My fiancé is a, you know, a W-2 employee and he does really well for himself.
And he's like, you're going to be the bread maker. You know, like because there's just so much more opportunity as an entrepreneur. The sky really, truly is the limit versus waiting around for somebody to give you a raise. So I think that a lot of people get in their own head, understandably so, about the fear of all the startup things that have to occur.
And, you know, also a lot of these people are getting into service businesses, which I think I mentioned earlier, it's a difficult business to be in. if you're looking to really scale it or make a good amount of money, it's always about the, you know, chasing that client, etc., etc. but the long and short of it is, I hope that I see more people go into business for themselves and small businesses really thriving.
And I think it's an exciting addition to our industry. So I want to see more of that.
Lauren:
Yeah. Well, I think that's why the network and community that you've built is so important. Like, imagine if this existed, you know, back in 2017, 2018 when you were, you know, in those kind of earlier stages of, of developing, you know, the influencer, talent function where you were and, you're just having that community to bounce ideas off of and like, are my dreams too big?
Absolutely not. but, you know, I think that's why the community that you've built is so impactful. So it was great to learn about it.
Jessy:
Think you know where it's all about the community, truly. The women who are in it are phenomenal. And it's just great being in a community with them.
Kwame:
That is awesome. And with that being said, it seems like we're at a pretty good point right now. Jesse, do you have any final words for our listeners today?
Jessy:
I mean, watch Love Is Blind. No.
Kwame:
I can't throw.
Jessy:
That is there. I'm a huge fan of the show. but Yeah. So now, on a serious note, but, yeah, I don't know, you know, like, check out where I am. If what we're saying sounds interesting to you. We also have a podcast. I hope this is okay to self-promote. You know, it's, the Women in Influencer Marketing podcast.
Women's our industry. But also, like, I am happy to be a resource to anyone. So I'm super active on LinkedIn. So if you just want to pop into my, I'm not a nerd, but that LinkedIn, my LinkedIn DMs, connect with me on there. I'm always happy to say hi and share info. So I hope to hear from you and thank you guys for having me on.
Kwame:
Yeah, I love it. It's, you know, you can watch everyone skip season four. but
Jessy:
Why is that and why would you do that?
Kwame:
But with that being said, man, it has been an incredible conversation today. Jessy, thank you so much for joining us. And Lauren, thank you so much for stepping in as our co-host today. This is a great conversation. There's so much to learn. So I'm really excited to share this with all of our listeners. We're going to wrap it up with a yes, you should watch Love Us Blind, especially season four, because it's the best.
Go Out finds the CEO at her and definitely asks for some information because she's got a lot to give, and I'm sure that she's ready to give and learn from you as well. So thank you everyone for tuning in today. We will see you next week of Beyond Influence. Bye bye.