Transcript
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Kwame
What's up everybody? Welcome to today's episode of Beyond Influence. I'm extremely excited today. More so than ever. I know I say that a lot, but I promise you today is one of the highest levels of excitement I felt, being on this podcast. My name is Kwame Appiah. In case you don't remember me, I'm sure you've heard my voice way, way, way too many times.
And I'm here with my co-host, Lauren. Lauren, say hi to the people.
Lauren
Hello everyone.
Kwame
Yes, we are very excited today because we got to have a guest that I know personally, one of my good friends. And I'm going to say, honestly, one of my favorite content creators. Yeah, I don't, I don't actually I don't want to blow up his head too much yet. So I'll say some compliments a little bit later.
But we have with us today the one and only Justin Glaze. Justin, what's going on, brother?
Justin
What's going on guys? Happy to be here. Thanks for having me.
Kwame
Yes, yes, Justin texted me shortly before the podcast was supposed to start and he's like, hey, what's the what's the dress code? He's like, yeah, I got a hat on. And I don't feel like taking it off. We need it. Oh, yeah.
Yeah, I'm with you there. I actually have my appointment tomorrow. My barber has been away for about four weeks. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, I'm. I'm a little upset. I'm going to do anything that I can, I don't know, get his passport reported or something. He can't leave the country anymore.
Yeah, but thanks for joining us today. Justin. How are you doing, man? Let's start. Let's start off easy. How's life?
Justin
Man? I don't know if that's starting off easy, but, that's a loaded question. Life is good, man. I really can't complain. I'm blessed. I'm super busy, but again, all good things. So I'm just. Yeah. Just been working a lot and, you know, liking, you know.
Kwame
I can dig a house. So what, projects and, you know, things are you working on in your, I guess, professional? Well, we won't touch on love potion yet. I know we're definitely a touch on that, but. Yeah. What else are you working on in your, in your influencer life?
Justin
Well, that is definitely taking up the majority of my time. Because we can actually touch on it later. But, social media wise, you know, just a constant, balance of trying to, you know, continue to like, niche, my content, to attract the brands that I want to attract, execute the campaigns that I'm getting while also weaving in and trying to stay up to date with, like, organic stuff as well, and trying to figure out what's my niche there, you know, what kind of series or something can I, you know, start to keep people engaged.
Justin
So really just the constant like, plan me out of organic stuff, balancing it with paid stuff, is what my part of my day to day looks like.
Lauren
What do you feel like is easier for you or more fun? Do you like focusing more on the paid content side of things, or do you like coming up with things like the organic series side?
Justin
Well, Lauren, I definitely enjoy getting paid. So yes. We would like it if I said I didn't enjoy that right away, but no, honestly, I feel like there is, and I don't want to give a copout answer. I really think that there is a lot of fun in both of them. One obviously, I mean, if I had, you know, the organic stuff is really fun because there's no restrictions or limitations.
It's your're in complete control of what you put out there, and you can fully 100% be yourself. But I will caveat that, saying, you know, when an opportunity comes across from a brand, right, like I won't just take on any partnership, you know, I feel like I have to be aligned with the brand.
And I have, you know, one of the best things that I can hear is when a brand comes to me and they're like, hey, we really love how you know your organic content, and we don't want this to feel like an ad. We want this to mirror what you would typically put out there. Right? And so getting that sort of green light, in essence, makes it fun for me, because I can continue to just be myself.
And I don't have to, just like, I won't just get in front of a camera and try to sell you on something. It's just not my personality, not what I enjoy doing. And so I won't make that type of content. So, a super long-winded way of saying that I enjoy both. Just because I have the freedom to put out what I want to put out and express myself, and show my personality.
Kwame
Yeah, I mean, I think that's really dope. I mean, I think obviously it shows, and I think that that's a big part of why you are genuinely one of my favorite content creators, is like, you make content that is enjoyable across all levels, right? When it's your personal content, it's funny; when it's branded content, it's funny. You know, you always bring light to, I think, the situation, and I feel like it's something that people can easily connect with.
When you look at social media nowadays, like for me, it takes me five minutes scrolling to get frustrated with with social media nowadays because there's just so much negativity that you see, there's like a whole lot of politics and, you know, it's just it's just a lot of divisiveness. And so I wish there was a way to just toggle a like setting that would only put people that you enjoy laughing at or watching, or people with like, friendly content on, because those are the ones that just like, I feel like that's the real social media escape.
When you open up your social media, you're social media. You're not supposed to get more stress, you're supposed to get less stress. And so I can really appreciate that about your content. And before we get too far, I'm going to backtrack a little bit because I think it's important to know why you are on this episode with us today.
I think to quickly glaze over, no pun intended, to, you know what? But you know, Justin's platform about him was on season 17.
Yes, of The Bachelorette with Katie Thurston, and he gained a platform from that. But what I think has been really cool about Justin's transformation is a lot of people get a platform and then kind of just their effect dies down, right? And their growth dies down, and they stop creating a niche for themselves and stop really creating a presence for themselves on social media.
And it just becomes like them. And they post every other week or whatever the case may be. But Justin has made a very concerted effort to really grow his brand and become this person that when you see, you know what kind of content you are about to get. And so what really drew me to this conversation today is knowing about someone who has gained a platform.
And then you kind of think about it as somebody who, if they didn't gain a platform, they probably would have been able to grow a platform. Right? And so coming from all angles and the fact that you now have started a company and are hoping to, you know, really, really bring that into light with the platform that you have, there are so many different facets of who you are as a human being.
And realigning back to our original point, your content that you create, the fact that you're able to make it so light, like the amazing parts of that content creation, like what started inspiring your like themes for this guest man? It just seems like it's who you are, and it's so down to it, like down to a tee.
Justin
Yeah. No, it's man, I, I feel like this has always been me. And, like, one of the best things that I've heard from, like, you know, my hometown friends and like, family that knows me is kind of to your point, like, after coming off the show and stuff like that, I think it is, I don't say easy, but I think people do have sort of a propensity to kind of like alter who they are sometimes, like whether that's in interpersonal connection, like relationships, or like how their presence online.
And I've always been someone who, it's like, I'm not going to take myself too seriously. And so how I've acted and like what I do online, like pre and post shows, it's like people that know me know, like, oh, that's just Justin. Right? So obviously I wasn't doing, you know, branded content before the show. And I think, you know, I will say I probably cared a little bit more about what people would think before the show.
But then you know, I like going through this experience and like being, you know, everyone's not going to love you, right? And you grow this thick skin. You're just like, you know what? Like, I really don't care as much anymore. Like, so I am just going to fully be myself and fully send it. And so when I first started getting brand deals, it just didn't feel natural to me.
So like I said, kind of set up a camera and just like, talk to it. I'm like, that's not me. Like, I, I mean, some of this, some of the deals that I was getting, I was just like, well, you know, this product, like, I kind of got to make it funny. Like, I like, I, I can't take this seriously.
Right. And so I just really wanted to be me. And I've always, I mean, you can ask Marshall, we've been doing like, home video stuff since before. Like, I can remember we were like little kids, you know, in our parents' house with this little tiny camcorder. And we were just, like, making home videos and stuff like that.
So it's kind of always been in us to be creative and expressive and things like that. Right? So I'm like, wow, now I have the opportunity to continue to do that for brands, and that's more up my alley than just talking to the camera. So I was like, let me see if it'll work. And like when I remember seeing my first couple and I'm like, this isn't usually like what I typically see online.
Like I typically see the influencer type of vibe when it comes to like, branded content. So I'm like, I don't know if brands are going to go for this. And fortunately, they loved it. And so I was like, all right, well, I'm just going to keep with this style because it is what I want to do and it's working and it's what they like as well.
And so it kind of just snowballed, and I kept building off of it. And then I just found different ways to continue to like, kind of invest in myself and what I was doing to like, kind of up the production value at times, and things like that. Because I really do think it's important to invest in yourself and your content.
So I want to get off topic of what you're asking me, but that's kind of why I don't know, that's kind of how I started, you know, just doing what I've always done. But with brands, seeing if they liked it, and they did, and just continue to do it.
Lauren
I think what I really appreciate about your style of content creation, too, is, you know, people follow you and resonate with you for being yourself. So I think it's pretty incredible that you are able to translate that to the more paid campaign side of your content creation. Is there anything else you've seen that you've kind of applied to your content that's been really successful, and either the organic or the paid side?
Justin
Yeah, I would say I would piggyback off of investing in myself right when I made the decision to step away. You know, prior to doing this stuff, I was working full time in finance. I was working in institutional investment, sales. And so when I finally made the decision to step aside from the corporate 9 to 5 and kind of like take a chance on my own with the creative and knowing that I was going to, you know, grow love potion, all these things.
And I was going to have time to juggle both of those and a corporate finance job. It just wasn't feasible. So when I made that decision, I was like, okay, like, this is my real work now. And, you know, contrary to what people may think, like I'm working more now than I was before, but I'm like, if I'm going to treat it like a job, then I need to really invest in it, right?
And so like I said, it was, you know, the first step was, okay, getting a real camera, real mix. Right. And like, up in the production value. And then it was, you know, I'll do little things like I'll, I'll spend the money to rent a studio or a space like a pier space or something on gigs to write, to give a new setting, or like make a video super aesthetic.
Right. Or I'll hire, depending on how big the, you know, the campaign is, like, I'll hire a videographer and, you know, an editor and things like that. So again, like upfront, it's like people don't want to spend that money, but it's, you know, I'm willing to invest in myself and what I'm putting out there because I look at my page as a resume.
Right? And I want people to come to my page, and I want brands to come to my page and see the quality of product that I'm able to produce. And, so that's kind of been like the kind of chronological, I guess, leveling up of my stuff.
Kwame
Yeah. I think one thing that people overlook is the dedication that a content creator needs to have. You know, I feel like people just think, Oh, you create content, great. That means you take out your phone, you snap a couple of pictures or videos, and boom, like, everybody likes it, and you get paid. In order to really, really be an effective content creator, you have to invest a lot of time in it.
Despite your platform, you have to be active. Right? Like my first year as a content creator, I made zero to nothing, like it was nothing. Despite the fact that I had over 400,000 followers. Right? That's not what brands were looking at. They were looking at it. Can you go out? Can you put him out there? Can you be, you know, vulnerable, interacting with his audience?
Yeah, things like that. And I just saw my revenue and likelihood to, you know, receive partnerships and offers increase and increase and increase as I started really taking the time to like look at what trends are going on, jump into the ones that made sense for me, for me and my brand. Take stuff that applies to my brand, create new videos off of it, and hope that those can become trends, right?
I like to interact with people online, have conversations, talk to my community, answer messages, and answer comments like you have to be a social media manager. You have to be a content creator. You know, you have to be a public figure. All of these different aspects of it come together to really create. You're like an everyday influencer nowadays, like there's so much of it that comes together to make sure that you are actually being effective.
So I don't know, I feel like that's something that I want to tell the entire world when they look at something like this. Because I see a lot of ignorance when it comes to scrolling through the internet, you know, once again, the internet comes up, but it's gone through social media. You see, people are upset with content creators for the fact that they get paid to make content.
But in actuality, like I've seen content creators put together a 2 to 3 month calendar of like, I'm doing this today, this tomorrow, this is the day after, right at this time. I have to post it this hour. It is a very meticulous job. If you want to be successful at it, you can make money for a year or so as a content creator if you aren't really diligent, but after that, you're going to phase out.
Other people are making better content, they're growing their platforms, and you are going to fall off the side if you don't really put your all into it. So that's just something I want to let the world know. And obviously, as someone who's really been into it now, you're on multiple platforms, you're on TikTok. I saw that Taylor from Secret Lives commented on your TikTok the other day.
So congrats. Congratulations.
Justin
I'm going to feature all right.
Kwame
All right. Oh, man. But listen, where do you think you spend most of your time now? You know, do you think that, you know, you have an area I feel like I feel like you're usually on Instagram, but, you know, how do you feel about TikTok or other platforms as well?
Justin
Yeah, I feel like most of my time is with Instagram stuff. But as of late I feel like it's naturally kind of split because a lot of well, on the brand side, I think it's pretty split because now a lot like when I first started doing this stuff, brands would either pick if it was gonna be on Instagram or TikTok, but I feel like a lot of times now they're kind of packaging it where it's like Instagram syndicated to TikTok.
So it ends up being on both. But organically, I feel like it's interesting cause I feel like the majority of my audience from Instagram, like I feel like I have slightly different audiences, slightly, because Instagram is like the majority of people that know me from the Bachelor stuff, right? And then some that have come in from videos that have done well, and like the content that I've put out, where I feel like I wasn't really honestly using TikTok.
I'm kicking myself in the buttocks. I didn't like it, but when my show was airing, like I wasn't using TikTok, I was like that boom. Or like, oh, I'm not going to get on TikTok. And then I was just like, why am I not? So I was super late to TikTok, so I feel like my audience there. Yeah, it's a lot of bachelor people, but it's like random people that have seen me on the For You page, I guess, and just follow the content.
So I feel like it depends on the mood that I'm in. Like I'll go through ebbs and flows of being kind of, like you said, super diligent about planning stuff out. And like, I'm going to make myself put out a TikTok video every day, right? And people have different strategies. I know some creators where they're like, I'm going to post every single day on Instagram, right?
And that works for some people, where I may be more like, okay, a couple times a week I'm on Instagram, whereas TikTok, you can let it fly like I'm like, I can post every day on TikTok if I wanted to and not care, right? So I feel like I can kind of let my hair down and you can be a little bit, you know, like TikTok, like you can get a little rough around the edges on TikTok, you know what I mean?
Where I feel like my Instagram is a bit more curated. So it really depends on what I'm working on. I think TikTok is, like, more fun and entertaining because of that. Like, you can just literally take two seconds to make a video and throw it out there. And it can be unpolished, but hilarious. Whereas I feel like Instagram, like, you know, is a bit more curated.
So with my art, it's also about knowing your demographic and knowing your platforms, right? So if I'm doing artwork more times than not, like that's going to do better on Instagram than TikTok. You know, you know, there's a lot that goes into it. But I enjoy both. I feel like I enjoy creating content for Instagram more, but I enjoy joy, like scrolling through TikTok more.
So I bounce back and forth between the two.
Lauren
From working with creators. That's a trend I've noticed, too, where they say, you know, their Instagram is a lot more curated, it's a lot more polished, where things like Snapchat or TikTok, they're super unfiltered. People want that really vlogging kind of candid style back. Right? So it was, I mean, it's interesting to hear from your perspective as a content creator, but now as also a brand owner, where do you see managing that content for your own brand?
Justin
Yeah. I mean, that's been something that I've, you know, I've started working through. So I mean, fortunately, I do have experience working in content creation, which definitely helps. But I am starting to try to figure out, like, where I can delegate some other stuff. So right now, stuff for Love Potion is only on Instagram.
I haven't created a TikTok for it. But from a time standpoint, I probably need to bring some Gen Z-like mastermind on that. Like, is just up with the trends and stuff because I really have to sit down and take time to kind of go through trends and like, you know, it doesn't just come naturally.
You know, I feel like a lot of people are really good at just picking up trends and audios and stuff like that, and it's, you know, to Columbia's point, it's like a full-time, the clock thing. And it's for me, it's a tough balance of like doing the work and like planning out content, but also wanting to like, live in the moment.
Right? Because it's like you, you have an event coming up or like, you know, a party where, you know, a bunch of people are going to be there or Stagecoach or whatever it may be, and you're like, okay, like, let me sit down and and lock in on five different videos that I want to do right in from a, like a business standpoint, that's great.
But from wanting to live your life, it's like, man, like, don't want to be that annoying person. That's like, hey guys, I want to do a video or like feel like, get the document everything. So it's a balancing act for me, at least, of navigating that. But yeah, for a lot of push stuff. For now, I'm just focusing on Instagram, so I feel like that's where I'll get the most ROI from my platform of hopefully converting interest.
But eventually I'll, you know, obviously bring that over to TikTok as well once we hit shelves.
Kwame
Oh, we love that. We love that. I would love to be one of the love potions. Most prominent customers. You know what I'm saying? So, you know, it's really funny. I, I will be honest with you, Justin. I actually never tasted an espresso martini until I just kept seeing your content about espresso martinis. And one day I'm at a bar, and I always am.
Or old-fashioned, my drink. Yeah, and I'm always ordering old-fashioned. And one day, I'm just like, can I have an espresso martini? So I'm telling you, that's influencing. That's influencing right there and full impact. It's so funny, man. It's really cool to see somebody that you follow, use, or do or show something, and then all of a sudden it becomes something that's reinforced in your brain that's like literally how it works.
So good job. They're good.
Justin
Those are my favorite messages. When people are like, I try one for the first time because of you, I'm like, Yes.
Kwame
Yes, no, I feel you, man. I think the coolest messages I ever received from people are people who were just like, they either had the confidence to do something, or were inspired by something, or something made their day. Yeah, you know what I'm saying? And you get those messages, and I got to be honest with you, like, this is not a moment of like, oh, I'm too busy or I'm too important.
Like, I wish I could respond to every message or every, you know, every DM, every comment. Like, the bandwidth sometimes runs thin. But I guarantee you, when you send, people who have in any way made an impact on your life, like a message, if they're able to see it, even if they're not able to respond all the time, it really does make a positive impact.
So we appreciate the community that surrounds us and really supports us and the things that we do on a daily basis. But with that being said, you've obviously grown a community. You know, you've kept expanding it. How do you feel about what's most impactful for you in terms of how you connect with the people that follow you, you know, do you like the live stream or do you like to, like, answer messages, or do you like to answer comments?
How do you really feel like you connect most with them?
Justin
Yeah, that's a good question. It's probably something that I could actually get better at because I do like it. I'll scroll through TikTok especially and see people's lives like regular ones every night. And I'm like, man, like, they have such a strong community. And I'm like, I wonder why? Because their own lives are engaging. I'm like, man, I wish I didn't want to.
Like, I feel like I don't have the time for that right now. But it is so impactful because there's a direct correlation between the people who do that regularly and how engaged their audiences are and how loyal their following is. I think for me, I try to engage a lot in the comments for sure. I mean, I love people who are so funny, and comments I love like going back and forth bantering with people in comments, comment sections like on my favorite things.
And I try to be good about answering the impactful messages that I get. And to your point, call me a lot like you never want to say like, Oh, like I just don't have the time. Like you're being with does run thin at times. And so what I'll do is if I'm going through and I happen to catch something, I'll like screenshot it and then I'll like take some time aside and go to my screenshots and like just like batch answer a few of them because I know, like once they get shoved down, they're like, I'm never going to like see it again.
So if I see it on the fly, like I'll screenshot it and try to get back to it later and engage with people that way because, because yeah, I know, like at the end of the day, it's like we're normal people and like, yeah, we don't see everything, but I don't want people to ever think that I'm, like, unattainable or like this person that thinks I'm like, too cool for school.
It's like, no, if you send me a really impactful message of how something that I've done has impacted you or like, I don't know, anything really kind. And, I try my best to, to respond to those, but really in the comment sections where I, I love interacting with people, and it's cool to see like kind of the reoccurring ones where it's like, you know, people feel like they really like, know you at a certain point.
And I think, I think that's kind of cool, you know, to like to, to feel that community building, and see people talking to you like how they would talk to their friends. I love that type of stuff. But maybe, maybe you need to hop on the live, I don't know.
Lauren
Do you feel like there is a certain point, whether I was, you know, right around The Bachelorette airing or, you know, when you really started to take content creation seriously, that you felt your audience grow, was there like a certain time that you really recognized that happening for you?
Justin
Yeah. Well, I think at two different points, one, I feel like I really wasn't like before the show, I would post on social media like once every 3 to 4 months, like it was scarce, you know, and then, you know, just because you go on the show, you don't just change your social media behavior. Right? I'm like, oh, like, okay.
Like I'll post once every two months now. And so I really wasn't doing myself any favors. And like, I was still working fine. And so like, my goal wasn't, at the time, like I want to be a full-time content creator, you know, like, I knew it was something that people did, you know, at a certain point.
But, you know, I, I don't know, I feel a lot like I was, I was just so anxious coming off the show was my first time seeing myself on TV, and people like caring about me or like having opinions about me. So I wasn't focused on social media at all. But then, you know, I started hanging with my friend group, you know, Andrew Gray, those guys.
And, I started getting into social media some more, and people would comment because in my first season on The Bachelorette, like, my full personality wasn't really shown. I was just kind of like the face guy with the memes and stuff like that. Right? And so I started doing my thing on social media, and people were like, oh my gosh, like ABC hid this personality from us, like, where is this coming from?
And I'm like, this has always been me. And so that kind of gave me a little confidence to keep being me, and trying to do that was one inflection point. And then the second is when I moved from Baltimore to LA and made the decision to step away from finance, I was like, man, I gotta make it now.
So I have no choice but to double down and lean into this. So that was really when I saw growth and a lot of changes, when I like made it my job and treated it like my job.
Kwame
Yeah. You know, I do think that's really dope, right? You decided to invest in it, and you just had to put your all in it. You know, if you are somebody who was, let's say, starting social media today and you didn't have a platform, were you starting from zero? What would be your strategy?
Justin
And I got like no money.
Kwame
You got zero dollars. Yeah. No money. Okay. Yeah. Let's say let's do it. Let's do it half and half. We'll make no money and then, maybe a little bit of pocket change.
Justin
Okay? Okay. If I have no money. Honestly, like, there's no easy way around it. There's no overnight like, get lucky, you know, like you can get lucky on a video or two. Sure. But I think you really have to dedicate yourself to it. Right. And so if I'm that person who has a 9 to 5, I can't have the mindset that, like, I'm going to make a video, post a post once a week, hopefully one goes viral, and then I'm just going to amass all these followers.
It doesn't work like that, right? Like you have to be consistent, and depending on what your goals are, you have to treat that like a second job. So even if you're working at 9 to 5, like, okay, when you get home now your other job starts where you are scrolling your research, like what are the trends? Like, what can I do, what can I hop on?
Like, what's a series? You know, do I have any talents or, you know, any one of my differentiators? How do I want to niche myself? What do I want to be known for? Right. And once you figure that out, is the dedication and consistency that you have to, you know, stick with, like, I have a friend. I'm so proud of him.
I have a friend back home. He has a regular 9 to 5, and, you know, back home in Baltimore, like, there are no real content creators. It's not like a thing. Right? And so people probably thought it was weird what I was doing. But, you know, this friend of mine, he, he started doing vlogs and kind of, like, inspirational stuff every single day, every single day.
And he started with zero. And over the course of like 8 to 12 months, he got up to like 45,000 followers on TikTok. Right? And I'm like, oh, I'm so proud of him. But he was consistent every single day. And we and we used to talk about it because he's like, man, there's people that are like, give me crap for it.
And like, oh, who does? What do you think is an influencer? And then the same people, you should do the same thing to me that they were doing to him, where I would organically post stuff about the target. Right? And then people were like, oh, just target you on their payroll. And I'm like, this is what I enjoy doing.
And then six months later, the target was hiring me for campaigns. You know what I mean? So it's like, yeah. And so the same thing where my friend, you know, people are like, oh, why do you think you're an influencer? And then he got the following. And then brands were sending him stuff, and it was like the coolest thing to him.
So it's like you have to have that consistency. You have to make it like an everyday just like you clock into your job, like you got to clock in on social media and put the work in, there's no easy way around it. Like, that's just what it takes to build a community. It takes consistency.
Kwame
Yeah. You know, to add to that, man, it used to be that you could release one viral video, maybe 1 or 2 really, really viral videos, and gain a following. I remember, like, had to be like eight years ago now or something. There was a guy who made an incredible 3D animation of the Grim Reaper on a bridge.
Justin
Right?
Kwame
It was just like this insane animation, and I think he said it took him like some crazy, like took him like three months to make just this, like a 10-second animation. Right? And before the animation, I looked at his account like, you know, when it started going viral, I looked at his account, and it was at like, you know, 20 or 30,000 followers.
I checked back a month later, and he was at half a million followers off of just that one viral reel. And that's what's changed from then to now. Yeah, right. I've seen content creators who have a bit of consistency and are actually getting some good traction with their videos, but it takes a significant amount of time.
Justin
Yeah, more.
Kwame
Engagement. It takes a lot more activity. You now have to be, you know, if you really, really, really set on becoming a content creator, you have to find your needs, find your expertise, find what you are. I would say, like your formula is you almost just have to constantly blast it. I just saw a video the other day of a guy saying one of his jobs is to just create, you know, new accounts and try to grow them as quickly as possible.
And on one of his accounts, he says he posts, it's like, I think it was like eight times a day or so, because essentially not all of your followers are seeing all of your posts, right? So you put it out and in the hopes that by the time all of your followers have seen it throughout the day, you have it oversaturated to some of your followers, some of your, you know, new followers are now seeing your content and it just becomes this mix of like new followers, seeing it not too overwhelming for your other followers because they're not seeing all of your content and being able to connect with like, different communities and different hashtags and so on and so forth. So in order to really have successful growth, there is a significant, significant amount of effort and consistency that goes into it. So that's one of the cosigns.
Justin
But yeah, that's all, is that on? Is that on TikTok or Instagram?
Kwame
The video. So this was on Instagram, I think TikTok.
Justin
And that's the difference, right? Like when you follow somebody on Instagram, in theory, that's the content that you're seeing, right? Whereas, like when TikTok, I live on the For You page, I forget to click over to follow it like the one follow. That's yeah, it means like I live on the for you page, which to your point, kind of like decreases the likelihood that someone's going to follow you off of, like they may see a viral video and like it doesn't mean they're going to follow you off of that.
Right. So I follow people because if I see that they're consistent with either like, oh, they're really good at trending audios, or I like their style, or I like there has to be something that they do for me, at least in order for me to like, follow them. So yeah, just to kind of reiterate your point, like I it's I think you do you do have to like kind of niche yourself and like, you know, give something like people have to come expecting knowing what to expect from your page, you know, to a degree for to get that follow.
Kwame
Yeah. And yeah. And I don't, you know, I don't want to say, oh, our niche of like, social celebrity has it so difficult, right? Like, whenever we got lucky, we got to, you know, we got a following, which. Okay, I will say this. I had someone say to me, like, Oh, you earned your following or. Sorry, you, you, like, gained your following overnight.
Like, you know, I'd love to talk to some, like, real content creators. Well, I really think it's important. Right, right.
Facepalm. But I think putting yourself out to be really, really vulnerable to, I don't know, how much of a percentage of the world, you know, the reality TV side of things. It takes a significant amount of patience, vulnerability, and willingness to like to be out there and be okay. Because like you said, when you came off of the show, there's just a lot of heat that comes off of social media, and it's really, really tough to get over that hump and think, all right, I'm going to get back onto this thing where people have been sassing me on for the last, you know, 30 days.
Right? And so I do think that maybe content creators who grow organically gave up a lot of time and created a lot of consistency with their patterns. But I think, as people within our circle and our nation's social celebrities who were on reality TV, you gave up your privacy and you gave up a lot of who you are to the world.
And so there's definitely a big earned component of that. And then once you get there, you have to keep going forward. I say this to people, also, like just yesterday, I lost 350 followers. Yeah, like I remember. Yeah, right. Like you have to keep it up. You have to keep.
Justin
Yeah. That's what I was going to say. I mean, I feel like yeah, we're so fortunate that overnight, you know, because of our shows, we were handed a following. Yeah. But it is harder to keep them, right? Because they can, they flee. They flee. Yeah. But, you know, it's harder for the organic content creators to get that following, but they could have half the fun that we have.
But those suckers could be engaged. Like they're like, yeah. You know, like there's a formula when it comes to what brands are looking for, like to your point, like it doesn't matter. The following that you have is like, how engaged is your audience? What's the quality of your content? So these creators that have started from zero could have half of what we have.
But they've built such a loyal, engaged community that it could be more beneficial than someone who has 500,000 followers from a TV show, but no one really cares what they're putting out. Like, they just follow them from the show, and then they're like, oh, I forgot to even follow this person. You know, it's seasons ago, right? So yeah.
Yeah. Like you said, just because once you get it, you gotta keep it, keep people engaged. And the goal is to grow, you know, like that's kind of, you know, when you see the following dip, it's not always a bad thing because you don't want people who aren't enjoying your content anyway. Right? So it's like you're kind of shedding the ghost for whoever is following you, and that doesn't care.
That's not going to engage your content anyway. And the goal is to then bring in new people who are following you, not because they saw you on Love Is Blind, but because they enjoy what you're putting out. Yeah, that's the goal. You know.
Lauren
And I think to your earlier point to Justin, it's very interesting, I think from both sides, like whether you are quote unquote handed a following or, you know, building it from ground zero, that it does take that time and consistency. And I think a lot of people, especially those who are spreading negativity or, you know, lose interest or do not care, think that everyone has to start somewhere.
So it's just really interesting to see from, you know, both sides, whether, you know, you get this following a little bit easier and it's harder to maintain or you're really working to build it and it's easier for you to maintain just hearing both sides of a content creation journey. And I think the main point of it all is it's not easy.
No matter what your starting point is.
Justin
Is, I will say it like it's not easy, but I will say I give a ton of credit to the people that have grown it organically, because even from like a psychological standpoint, you know, when you start from zero, man, it can be demoralizing to put some stuff out there and no one's seeing it. No one likes it.
It can be disheartening. It's like, damn, like, where's the ROI? Like, I'm putting in this work. I'm putting in this work where, at least like when we get quote-unquote handed the following, it's like we're starting from something. And so from a mental standpoint, it's like, okay, like we already have the base. So maintaining it, you know, it still takes a lot of work.
But like I give a ton of credit to people that weather the storm of the zero, you know, and build, build, build up like it takes, it takes a lot. So, shout out to them for sure.
Kwame
Nice weather. The storm of the zero. So now that you are where you are, Justin, do you work alone? On all facets of things, right? Like the content you create, the deals that you go find. Do you have a team around you? Because, you know, I know that most content creators, once they decide they want to take it to that extreme, they get tools around them.
Usually it's a, you know, a community of people who help them. How do you structure that? Do you have people who help you with any specific parts of your content creation?
Justin
Like holistic, like everything. I mean, like.
Kwame
Every aspect of it, just the creation and the deals.
Justin
Okay. The creation aspect. No, that's just me. I'm kind of a control freak. Not like in a terrible way, but it's like, even down to, like, handling my own emails. So if a brand reaches out, I work with a couple of different agencies, not exclusively, but I want to see every inbound opportunity that comes in, and then I want to be able to kind of delegate where that goes.
I never want to just blindly, I mean, people do it, and it depends on if you're more of a type A, type B, like how much you've got on your plate, whatever. So there's, you know, no right or wrong way to do this, is just, speaking personally, how I do it, what works for me? I never want to kind of just, like, blindly leave that open and just wonder, like, I wonder this month because it also helps me gauge, like, okay, what effect is my organic content having on brands, right.
So I can see the direct correlation of like, okay, these past few months, I really locked in on making cocktail videos or like funny bits or whatever. And okay, more brands are in my inbox now, where if I left that to somebody else, I could be hustling and be like, well, I don't really know. Like, if this brand that's coming in is because they pitched me, or the brand saw my stuff and wanted me.
So I like having that data myself to kind of see where I'm at. So I work with a couple of different teams on the execution, like the negotiation and execution of the deals. But when it comes to the conception phase and all that, that's just me. Like, I come up with all the ideas and, you know, submit all the concepts and go through all that stuff, and then the execution of the content is either just me or all outsourced.
I have a videographer that I work with pretty regularly. And that kind of depends on how much time I have, the lead time that I have to, you know, because a lot of times it's very rushed, like turnaround time. So I know how long it's going to take him to shoot, edit all that stuff, depending on the size of the deal.
All those things. But, yeah, I have a videographer, an editor, my management team, but other than that, nothing crazy.
Kwame
Nice. And are you exclusive or non-exclusive? Because I think.
Justin
None.
Kwame
Yeah, yeah, that's what I thought you had. Are you working with 2 or 3 management? Yeah.
Justin
Like, mainly two.
Kwame
Okay, nice. Yeah. I'm. I'm the same way. Yeah. And how do you, I guess, like, how do you decide what brands you're going to work with? And do you ever turn down deals?
Justin
Yeah. So a couple of different ways. One, sometimes I'll know right off the bat, like if it's a big brand that I know, it's a household brand. I'm like, I'd love to work with you. You know what I mean? And let's hope that the, you know, a lot of times they don't come with a concept, but, like, let's hope the campaign aligns with something that I am comfortable putting out and something that I can put.
I feel like I can put my own spin on it. And more times than not, they're coming to me because they know the type of content that I create. And so they would never come to me and expect to talk to a video camera. They're coming to me knowing that I'm most likely going to, like, make a bit out of it or something.
But if it's a brand that I'm not super familiar with, a lot of times I'll ask for the creative brief to see, like what? You know, what kind of wiggle room I have to make it my own. You know, if they're super strict on doing it their way, then I'm like, I'm cool to pass it.
And it's tough because sometimes, from a financial standpoint, it can feel really irresponsible to turn down some of this money. But at the same time, I don't want to just be like a billboard. I don't want to, like, dilute my content and just be a sell-out, you know, for what it is, you know, whatever you want to call it.
And just, like, shove it down my followers' throats, you know, every brand that comes my way. So I do try to find a really good balance of like, okay, could I be this organic to me? Do I really stand behind it? While also not being, like, financially irresponsible, if that makes sense. You know, so I don't think there's like, no silver bullet for me.
It's kind of like, I just feel it out. Ask questions and make a decision based on my beliefs.
Lauren
It does kind of seem like what your strategy is, honestly, does benefit you more in the long term. Where you're really like you said, I think the main thing I've at least taken away is really investing in yourself, investing in your craft. And by being a little bit here about those brand deals or what the brief is or you know, what goes into making a video for a brand that you're really investing in your audience because it's more authentic to you.
Justin
Right?
Kwame
Right. Yeah. And you know, Justin, we've talked about a whole lot of things, and we've been asking you question after question. And, you know, I think at this point, I want to give you an opportunity to tell us something about Love Potion Man. You know, it's a really cool concept. You know, I think it's a lot of people on the content creation side, like the way that brands used to work, or the way that creating a business would work, would be to create a business and then create a brand behind it.
And now I think it's like creating the brand, the idea, the identity, the audience, and then using that to create what your business is. And so you've obviously cultivated a big community of people who support espresso martinis. But tell us about, you know, love potion, how it started, you know, how you conceptualized it, and how you brought it to life.
Justin
Yeah. So, I started working on Love potion, like three years, three over three years ago. And so it kind of started, you know, after, after the show, when, you know, like we keep saying, get handed this following, right? Like, people have to like you, but, you know, when you start getting a following from, from the shows that we were on, you know, like I said, I didn't really all of a sudden switch up and change how I acted, what I enjoyed, like there's been facets of me that existed before the show and persist to this day, you know, a lot.
And so those are artworks. Like, I was always an artist. I have always been creative. I've always loved traveling. I've always loved good cocktails. And so two of those things, traveling and cocktails, are two things that I was posting about. Right. And so I kind of used the model of like the Dave Portnoy pizza tour type of thing, where I would go from city to city, and like, espresso martinis have been my favorite cocktail for a long time now.
And so I would travel and be like, hey, I'm going to be in Austin, Chicago, New York, wherever. Like, what's the best espresso martini? And people would write in like, you got to go to this cocktail bar, you got to go to this place. And so I would go and write them, and I kind of made it like a series, and I was making cocktail videos.
And so I was trying to niche my content because I had this plan of like, okay, again, if I'm going to take that leap of faith and step away from my finance job, I need to create something for myself because I don't know how long this social media stuff can last. And so something I knew that I'd be passionate about was cocktails.
And like when I looked around the market, there weren't a ton of people doing concocted and can't express martinis, and like, good ones at that. And so at that time, I started doing my research on my distilleries and stuff like that. And so I was like, okay, if I'm going to do this to your point, like build the brand identity and then like actually release the brand after that.
And so I wanted to niche my content to make it more organic for me to do, for it to make. I was thinking like five steps ahead, like, okay, if I know in a couple you're having to release this cocktail, does a cocktail company need to make sense? So I was niching my content into cocktail-making videos, espresso martini stuff, whatever.
And that was attracting alcohol brands. So, Jack Daniels, I was working with Cointreau, Bud Light, you know, all Forester, all these different whiskey, tequila, vodka companies. And I was doing cocktail-making videos for them all the while, like, I'm working on Love Potion and creating this brand identity of like, the go-to person for espresso martinis. And every single day, like, I get tagged in or sent espresso martini memes or like, you got to try this one or what's your rating on this?
Like every and, I love it every single day. And so that's kind of how the idea came about. And then a lot has happened over the past three years. Like it's just been me working on this. Up until recently, I brought on two consultants, but it was me for the past 2.8, five years, that I've been working on this, but that's kind of like the quick and dirty of how it came about.
Kwame
Wow, that is dope. You've been literally tracking this since, since the things happened. It's really cool to really think about it that way, right? Because like, it just sprung up, sprung up and, you know, to us and to me, I'm like, oh, that's a really cool idea. My first question was like, when did he think about this?
You know, like I thought the idea of it came after you kind of built this following of people who were, you know, really interested in espresso martinis, but it seems like you had the idea and used it to build up, which is basically exactly what we're talking about now. Right? It's really cool that you're able to just start this up because you have cultivated what this brand was supposed to be, and you've had this idea for so long.
So that's super freaking cool. I love to hear that. Excited for you.
Justin
Thank you, thank you. Yeah. So hopefully, we're reaching the finish line here. So it should be available in stores in LA, and July, early August, and then nationwide rollout like DTC, run that time as well. So we're getting there. But then it's like the work just starts from that point to.
So it's a lot, but it's very rewarding. And it's like when it's your own thing, you know, like it feels like work, but it doesn't feel like work because it's like you're growing something that you love, you're passionate about. It's very time-consuming, but it's been great. It's great.
Kwame
Yeah. And did you get any investors or anything, or is this kind of fully self-applied? Yeah, it's.
Justin
Been self-funded up until now.
Kwame
Wow. So much dough. Yeah. Well, congratulations, man. Excited for the love potion to get on the shelves. And, like I said, I'd love to be one of the big consumers of that, Lauren, as well. Do you like an espresso martini? Lauren.
Lauren
Oh, yeah. That's what I'm, like, super excited about this. I'm an espresso martini snob, so I'll definitely have to be one of your B2C customers as well.
Justin
I love that I got to get your feedback on it.
Lauren
Then I'll leave the inbox open.
Kwame
Okay. And, well, look, Justin, we're coming just about close to the end of this conversation. Mostly because I was a little bit late. I'm sorry. But, you know, I'd love to get a little bit of a quickfire to kind of just explore the social media world before we shut things down. So you can give us your opinion about how others can look at the social media landscape.
Are you down with that? Totally. All right. Sounds good to me. So I'll ask this or that. You answer, and then you give us just one sentence as to why. So starting here, do you like to batch content or create spontaneously?
Justin
Spontaneously? I wish I were better at batching, but I think of myself. This is because I think of ideas on the fly and in real-time as they come to me. And so I also just got too many points on the batch stuff right now. On-the-fly stuff just fits better for my style.
Kwame
Yeah, Instagram or TikTok.
Justin
If I had Instagram, I guess.
Kwame
Okay, I like it. Reels or carousels?
Justin
Oh, Reels.
Kwame
Reels. And what converts better for you?
Justin
It's actually so it is technically like. Sorry. I know you want a quick answer, but like.
Kwame
No, it's okay.
Justin
More times. Not like a carousel of pictures, I think it can perform better on average. But you have a higher propensity to, like, go viral and, like, hit the algorithm obviously on a reel. So when you get some of all of those and average it out, like reels get a better ROI because they can hit the algorithm.
Kwame
Yeah. Ladies and gentlemen of finance, guys. And then, do you have a current algorithm insight that you can pass to anybody?
Justin
Man, I wish I were looking for it, and mean if you have algorithm insight, let me know because I feel like I'm at the point. I mean, I've tried to figure it out, but it's like I'll throw it at the wall and see what sticks. You know, there are videos that I took weeks to make, and they flopped. And there's a video that, you know, there are videos that I was running out the door, and I was like, wait, can you film this real quick?
And they get millions of views. So it's so random. Like, I don't know, I wish I had the algorithm insights. Sorry.
Kwame
All right. And this one can be a much longer answer if you want it to be. But where do you see social media going in the next couple of years?
Justin
Jeez.
Kwame
Well, for our sake.
Justin
I hope to be on the up and up. But not all objects. But I do think that, well, from a brand perspective, like for brand or like just socially, like in general.
Kwame
In general, we can be multifaceted, we can be brand creators, and just social media in general.
Justin
I mean, I think it depends. I mean, I, I'm trying to like, not word vomit right now, but I think holistically, like social media is such a powerful and like, dangerous tool. Especially with where technology is going with AI and stuff like that. And we're now entering an era where it's like, okay, our parents' generation, our generation, and then like, you know, Gen Z, like all, all of these generations are on social media, right?
And it's dangerous because like, we know about AI and all these things, we're like, I'll have my mom or something like read a headline or like, hear a voice. I'm like, mom. Like, that was I like, that's dangerous. Because if you thought that was true, like, imagine what that could do from a media standpoint, like, you know, whatever.
But I think it is good because it's a source of entertainment. It's a source of advertising, it's a source of news, and like really positive things that we can consume on this one device that we all rely on and carry around. And I don't think that's going anywhere. I think the convenience factor of social media, combined with the ROI that brands are seeing and being able to reach all these people from social media versus the exponentially greater amount that they have to put into, you know, a commercial or a billboard or whatever it may be.
So, from a brand and just from a social standpoint, like I don't think it's going anywhere, I think it's only going to become more and more prominent. But I also think it's going to become more and more dangerous because of technology and because we're introducing it to people early on, earlier on in their lives. So, that was really long-winded, but that's my stance or my, you know, predictions.
Kwame
I guess I like it. All right. So, I mean, it looks like we're just about at the end of this conversation, to tie on and to tie everything together with AI considered. Do you see yourself ever incorporating AI into your content?
Justin
I mean, yeah, I think a certain I mean, I already do. Yeah. Like for funny stuff.
Kwame
Yeah.
Justin
I mean, yeah, I mean, I think like, even like, not funny, like, I've, I use ChatGPT if I'm like on the fly, like if I'm in the car and I've got my manager like, oh, they need a caption or whatever, I'm like, all right. Like, I'll hit ChatGPT with the vibe of the video. What I'm going for, like, help me think of like a creative caption.
You know what I mean? Boom. Tweak it. Copy paste. Cool. You know, I've used different AI generators for, like, imagery, you know, for, like, my love potion stuff, or even like, for my personal stuff. So, I mean, I think it's smart to incorporate it as such a powerful tool. You know, I did a brand deal with Adobe where I was using AI and, like, making a video on how to use AI to create compelling content.
So I think it's, you know, I think it's smart to, so. Yeah, for sure.
Kwame
Well, sweet man. Justin, it's been an absolute pleasure. And I want to, you know, give an opportunity for everyone to kind of have their last words. So, you know, Lauren, do you have anything to say to our audience before we sign off today?
Lauren
Yeah, I think a lot of what Justin was saying. There are a lot of valuable lessons there. And the two that I'm definitely going to take away are to be consistent and also invest in yourself.
Kwame
Lovely. Are you going to become a content creator any time soon? Learn?
Justin
I don't know.
Lauren
I'm feeling pretty inspired. There's no.
Kwame
And then. And then. Justin, any last words for the audience today?
Justin
Sorry if I was rambling too much. Maybe I'll leave with that, but I'd say, you know, as clichéd as it is, man, post your content. You never know what's going to stick. You never know what video could, like, change everything for you and give you that confidence to keep on doing it. So just let it fly. Let it fly.
Kwame
I love it and do not. And I think Justin mentioned this earlier, do not get weighed down by what you call it. Was it something of zero?
Justin
Or whether the storm of zero.
Kwame
Whether this storm of zero. So you know, what we do in an episode, or we do quotes per episode. So that's definitely going to have to be with nerves. I really love that you got through this storm of zero. But with that being said, that was today's episode of Beyond Influencer. Thank you so much, Justin, for joining us.
Thank you, Lauren, for being a co-host for yet another great conversation. This was definitely one of my favorite conversations. Got to have a good time. And I'm sure once we sign off for this, Justin, that we'll call each other and talk trash about other things. But it was great to have a nice, structured conversation with everybody today.
Hopefully, everyone took something out of it. We're excited to share it with you. And we will see you. Until next time. Bye-bye.