Transcript
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Kwame
Hey, everybody. Welcome to today's episode of Beyond Influence. I am Kwame Appiah, the Head of Influencer Experience at Later, and I am one of your hosts. I'll pass it off to our other host.
Scott
Hey everyone. Scott Sutton, CEO of Later. It is an amazing Monday. Ready to kick the week off with a bang and dive into this conversation? Let's get it!
Kwame
Yes, we're going to dive into this conversation with an incredible guest today. We usually are graced by great creators and influencers, but we are very lucky to be graced by a presence that is a very top marketer in the industry with a ton of industry knowledge. So we are here to learn a ton from you today.
Welcome to the show, Lia Haberman.
Lia
Thank you. I appreciate that intro and I'm a big fan of Later.
Scott
Awesome, so tell our listeners who might not know about your work. We obviously know such a depth of experience in social media and influencers, but how did you get started in this space? How's that journey gone for you so far?
Lia
Yeah. I started in entertainment, actually. I worked for E! Entertainment and television. And that was the OG influencers. And then I moved over into, like, health and fitness, and started hiring influencers for campaigns. Then I went to work for an influencer. Then I started writing a newsletter about influencer marketing and social marketing, and then I started getting hired for campaigns myself.
So I've done the whole 360 of working for hiring and being an influencer. So at this point, I've worn a lot of hats in the industry.
Kwame
Nice. And you started with a history degree, didn't you?
Lia
Yeah, I did, yeah. And not only was it a history, it was medieval European history. So, yeah, I can clearly see where there's a lot of relatability between that and influencer marketing. But, no, I wasn't really sure what I wanted to do. I thought, like, maybe journalism, maybe English, maybe be a museum curator.
Not everybody has it figured out at 18. And so I didn't really know what to do. And I just thought, okay, I'll do this. And, yeah, I have not really used it since, but I learned a lot of stuff.
Scott
That's awesome. So social media is Lia’s Roman Empire. Apparently, that's what we learned on this site.
Lia
Yeah, exactly.
Kwame
Yeah. So, I mean, I think, what we think about your journey through it all, you said you started in history and ended up in entertainment and then going down this path. What was the initial trigger for you? What was the initial moment where you thought, “I think this might be what direction I need to head in.”
Lia
I like people, I like telling stories. I like to help people tell stories. I like to figure out where to tell stories, and what format that story should take. So I think it was the same thing. I love entertainment, I love TV, I love movies, I love people being entertained. I thought it was an amazing place to work because it really celebrated entertainment.
It celebrated the value of good content. I mean, that might be debatable depending on what you like watching on TV or movies, but at the time I just felt like, okay, they really appreciate content and entertainment. And then it segways into I was working with, Dick Clark Productions that does like the Golden Globes and the Billboard Music Awards and stuff like that.
And that was a really good transition between celebrity and influencer. And from very early on, this was in 2015. I was working with them. They were inviting influencers to their shows like Billboard Music Awards. They'd have all the celebrities and artists, but they'd also bring Cameron Dallas or Nash Grier like a bunch of ERS at the time, and YouTubers Casey Neistat.
I like people like that. And they'd bring them to the shows so that they'd get the TV coverage from celebrities and artists, and then they'd get social coverage from all of the influencers. And that was where I saw like, “Okay, there's a shift happening and like, who has the mic and gets to tell stories and where they tell those stories.”
So for me, it was a very natural transition. When I started my career, it was TV and celebrities. And then it shifted to social and then it shifted to influencers. And now I think it's shifted to, I mean, I don't want to get ahead of myself in this interview, but, I think it's shifted to like, everybody's an influencer.
But we can talk more about that.
Scott
I love it. The good old days of Vine, I think it's, that the whole story is something to unpack on. I don't know.
Lia
I think you're fine.
Scott
Yeah, I think it's really interesting to see how it's developed. We talk about celebrities being the original influencers. It's funny because Casey Neistat talked a lot about vlogging before it was a thing — before vlogging was cool. And he was rooted in that same storytelling that you're talking about — telling really compelling stories.
And it doesn't need to be highly contrived or anything. It can be people who want to know about someone's normal life and be invested. So it's pretty cool that you've gotten to watch that evolution as it's played out. A funny story about that. We were in New York and it was funny. I remember telling Kwame and some others that we manifested a Casey Neistat encounter because we were like, “How crazy would it be if we just saw him?”
And he literally in a varsity jacket on his skateboard just rolled past our Uber. And I was like, this is the most New York thing I've ever experienced in my entire life. It's like, yeah. Anyway, so how did you end up working for an influencer? That's an interesting piece of your journey that I wanted to unpack.
Lia
Yeah. So I hired her for some different campaigns and event appearances. We got along. I tend to really cultivate, like, the people that I had hired. They had to pass my own radar off, like, would I follow this person? Am I interested in them? Like, is this something that I would regularly consume their content?
So, I know you can't always do that at scale. , you'd be following thousands and thousands of people, and I'm sure some people do. But I felt like especially the influencers that I went back to over and over, I really got invested in them and their lives and their content. So we became friends. And then when she had a fitness app, she was launching a protein supplement.
So she hired me to run marketing for her company. And so I think given the fact that I was so invested in her and her business and her story, I had a really good idea. Like I stepped in knowing, okay, here's like, here's your thing. We know that you're into this. I know that, like, these are your likes and dislikes.
And so it was I think it was much easier to step in, and just hit the ground running since I knew so much about her already. And then I think I've always like I said, I've always worked on, I would say all sides, like, whether it's the brand side as a marketer, whether it's helping influencers, whether it's being an influencer.
I worked for Colin and Samir this summer and led some live sessions for them. And so I think I'm equally comfortable working on either side. And I think creators appreciate that. Like they know that I'm advocating for them and not just trying to sell them something or use them to sell something.
Kwame
I think it's really important. Like the collaboration and cohesion of just being within the industry and moving forward with people who are moving forward. It's funny when you think about it, just like any organization in the world, Apple, when it first started out, Apple stock was two bucks or so and now it's at a hundred bucks or 50 bucks.
You think about Casey Neistat when you initially met Casey Neistat. He was this person that people barely knew. And now Casey Neistat, riding a skateboard in New York is like, it's a spectacle and everybody wants to see it. And so I do think, like investing in people, investing in creators, there's such an incredible growth path.
And just doing it for the, like the organic aspect of it and just the complementary and everyone just helping each other and a great way to just help the industry move forward is the best way to get the most out of it. And so a quick question that I have for you is have you had any creator experiences or people that you've met along the way that really, really had a lot of impact on your journey?
Lia
Okay. That's a good question. Creators or brands or campaigns like what specifically?
Kwame
I would say the answer. I guess we'll take the multifaceted answer. Right. We'll take that. We'll take the creator one. We'll take the organizational brain one. It will also take the campaign one.
Lia
Okay. I set myself up for that one. It's interesting. So, the creator that I worked for, her name was Anna Victoria. We talked a lot about it. She had a very specific skill set. And I think seeing her do what she did, I realized that, like, I'm never going to be a full-blown influencer or creator. Creators and influencers take a certain amount of vulnerability.
And we would talk about that a lot. Like she was very comfortable, exposing everything about her life and putting that on screen. I'm pretty reserved. So I just thought, I feel like I learned a lot from her and understanding like, this is what people are clicking with. Like, this is why people trust her.
This is why people love her. This is why people take her recommendations because like, she puts it all out there and it made me realize, like, okay, like that's not going to be me. I'm not. I'm not comfortable going that far. So I'm always going to be like, maybe I'm an expert creator, but I'm never going to be just a full-blown or like a lifestyle influencer, for example.
In terms of the campaigns that made an impact on me the most, I think I'm super into social listening. So I love anything that ends up happening. , based on whether it's an agency or a brand listening, observing, and watching what's happening online. One of the examples that I love and I always talk about is Airbnb.
When Alex IRL was stranded in Italy, I think it was last year or two years ago. And she's out there in Italy, she's with 11 different friends. They're all-weather, micro, or mega influencers. And somebody had screwed up her booking. It was not Airbnb, but somebody else screwed up her booking. And she was talking about it on TikTok.
And within 24 hours, Airbnb was in her comments saying, "We got you!" We're finding you a place like 24 hours later, they're in a villa wherever it is, like Positano. And they're doing these videos thinking about Airbnb. And I was just like, that's amazing. That's somebody similar in the same way that I say, like, you stay invested, you get to know these people, you follow them, you advocate for them.
Like that was somebody at Airbnb watching Alex Earle's TikToks hour by hour and jumping in and activating overnight. And so, like any favorite campaign, I have usually results from something that was based on social listening.
Scott
I love that there are so many cool examples of that, I think, where really great social teams are just on the ball, and whether it's dropping a funny comment or turning something into a moment, we talk a lot about, El Pollo Loco and Chick fil A and this Mary the Siren got told to stop making and then eventually work to a Shake Shack.
And then El Pollo Loco and the teams were really on it, and, I think it was, it was such a great way to engage that fan base, to engage with that influencer and make a meaningful impact to them and their audience and connect. But yeah, just so many, so many cool experiences.
Lia
Yeah, that was wild. I'll just say, to add to your comment about Mary the Siren. And Chick-fil-A, like, at that point, I think they should have gone back and rewritten the employee handbook. Yeah, 100%. Sure. Based on what ended up happening, they may have gone back and done that. And like, well, you have to start seeing not only your creators and your customers as advocates, but your employees as well.
And there is definitely room for employee advocacy that includes somebody sitting there making TikToks for millions of views, raving about your food like that. That is a gift that's not a liability like that is a gift.
Scott
That I love that so much. Yeah. I'm curious about some of your favorite brand activations. what? What's one that really struck you as just being stand out? As one of the best campaigns run by a brand?
Lia
Yeah. I mean, it's not, it's not groundbreaking because it won an award at Con, but I love the survey. Michael Sarah's campaign this year. I'm sure everybody likes it, I don't know if everybody on your podcast has said that's the one they love the most. But I think the fact that they incorporated for me, there's a lot of elements.
One is that it's spawned from social listening. It came from a seven-year-old Reddit comment that mentioned, Is Michael Sara, the CEO of Survey? It included a mixture of celebrities and influencers. So at different points, they brought different people in. It just to me, was like everything was there and it was so layered and had so many elements to it.
So, that is probably out of the current campaigns this year. That's probably my favorite.
Scott
I love that it's so funny you mentioned that. I was thinking about that when you're talking about social listening because we actually use that as an example campaign. When we talked to some folks recently, it was just so clever. He's an amazing actor and just such a funny guy. And the way they stage, their Super Bowl ad, and people running into him at the store and having him sign, sign bottles and stuff was funny.
It reminded me of, I don't know if you saw the marketing campaign that Coopers did, but there was a home run that was hit by Ohtani's. So the best baseball player in the MLB, and he hit the Coors Light sign in, like, the second row of the stadium, and it broke an entire section of pixels on their can.
And within 48 hours, they had created a custom can with the blacked-out pixels on that exact part of the can. And then they produced it. Send it out, and then all of their ads in the stadium, they changed to have the missing pixels and it just went crazy viral. It was such a great way to immediately jump on a trend and turn it into something.
And they sold a ton more beer. All these people were clamoring for these collector's edition cans. It was such a great way to turn that moment into something bigger.
Lia
That's amazing. I had not heard of that, but I feel like now I have to look it up and it's got to get worked into some of my course material or something because that's great. And how many brands can actually activate in like 24 or 48 hours?
Scott
But that's it. Yeah, that was one of the more surprising things about how fast they turn that can around. I think like I've done real-world production and it doesn't seem like anything moves that fast. But, pretty remarkable.
Kwame
Yeah. Isn't it the best when I see when you have a brand and a creator that just mesh based off of, like, a circumstance, like, I think one of the funniest things that came out of all of this, we had Izzy Zapata, who was on, Love Is Blind season three, and when he came out I think all of us who go through this reality to creator step it takes quite a while for us to find our place.
And I think one thing that was really cool about his discovery, was that there were a lot of things in his season that really pertained to who he was as a person and like some difficulties and some other things. And one thing that he struggled with was his financial health. And when he came out of it, it seemed like right out of the gate, companies were all right like it's like Credit Karma or like a visa or whatever.
The case. They were like, they just messed with his life. And I think that whenever you have that cohesion of something that is genuinely true to who you are as a person, and what the brand has to offer the world, I think it makes such a beautiful collaboration. So yeah, it's one of my favorite kinds of things when it all just clicks.
Lia
I'm still catching up on Love Is Blind USA, so no spoilers about the current season because I still haven't reached the end, so I don't want to know. Don't tell me anything.
Kwame
Okay, so we.
Scott
Caught up on Love Island and Perfect Match. Like you got.
Lia
Some, you got some more I know, I know I got, I got some work to do, I got some TV to watch.
Kwame
Yeah. Is it the climb or the ascension of reality TV in the last few years that is almost as big a boom as influencer marketing, once upon a time, everyone thought reality TV was, like, the most trashy thing to ever spend your time doing. And nowadays, when there's a hit reality TV show out, every social network is blowing up.
Lia
Well, the pipeline from reality TV to social is really strong, so I think that makes a lot of sense. Like you've got people that are already there, camera ready, like, audiences love them. It's a win-win for everybody. So yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
Kwame
Yeah. So I guess when it comes to the events and things that you participate in throughout the year one thing that I hope people can take from the conversations we have is what's really, really relevant within the industry. What do you think are some of those events that you just can't miss? Because I think when we initially connected, we had some going back and forth of trying to get some time together, and there was one week where we were supposed to connect, but you said, hey, I've got VidCon this week, so obviously you see the relevance in being in spaces like that.
So I'd love it if you could just share what you think is important for people to be at.
Lia
Yeah. VidCon is definitely one of them. I would have said last year, I would have probably put VidCon as one of the few. It feels like this year there are so many more events and there are so many more. Not only creator-specific IC but there are events like a Con in the south of France that are adding a creator track.
So it seems like there are a lot more conferences that are trying to be more accommodating. And bring in creators and influencers. Definitely VidCon. I would go for sure. I think when you go to VidCon, you're essentially it's less panels, though sometimes there are interesting things that you learn at the panels. I try to go to anything that the platforms run themselves.
So it's like Instagram has a panel, TikTok has a panel, YouTube has a panel. I go to that above all other things, because I feel like you're probably going to be getting Intel straight from them. You also get to meet the people from the platform. And so for me, that's really valuable. If you're not a huge advertiser, if you're not regularly going to, I don't know, like the meta parties or whatever it is, this is your chance to get in front of people to figure out, like, okay, here's who's the head of creator at TikTok, here's who's this person.
And I think if you're an independent on whether you're a creator or marketer, that's super valuable. I feel like a big part of it is you're basically just paying for access to these people. And then you're also paying for access to, like, other creators you can collaborate with and other marketers and brands. For example, there were fewer brands this year, so that was maybe not a big thing at VidCon.
Depending on when this comes out, there's also this summer, there's going to be the White House's first official creator conference. I'm going to be super interested to see what that's about. There's a video summit, there's oh, gosh, I mean, there's so many. I started a spreadsheet that I share with my newsletter, and community of events, just to try and keep up because there's so much stuff, and especially over the summer, there are so many events.
It feels like summer.
Scott
That's awesome. It's great to hear the breadth of events and speaking of the White House summit, it's such a cool opportunity to engage with the administration. Gentlemen, you just say hi to Lindsey Gamble if you run into them, came from later and is going to be at the,
Lia
Yeah, yeah, I love him. He's great. Yeah. He's awesome. Yeah.
Scott
So he'll be there. It's such a great opportunity. We talked a lot and through the whole TikTok ban discussion. Yeah. The one thing that I kept coming back to and hearing everyone say is rather than just going straight to ban, why are we not having a more meaningful dialog, educating all of those who are in a position to govern about social media and engaging in a meaningful dialog, connecting the social networks together with legislators to better understand the impacts of social media and the algorithms and the impact on society.
Whereas banning is a very binary decision of yes or no. Yeah. I think similar to how there's been a bipartisan discussion and really deep, seeking of understanding around the implications of I think social media and influencers should have the same treatment, as it goes with the bipartisan committee and a lot of great experts being brought in to help educate rather than just push things aside.
Lia
Yeah, I 100% agree. And I'm hoping that we do have those conversations like it's an all-day thing. So it doesn't sound like, oh, it's just like, “Come in, have a photo op and you're done.” So I'm hoping that we have those conversations. I'm hoping that we talk about coppa like the Kids Online Safety Act.
But you're right, like, I, I do agree, I think we need a lot of education. I think Congress and the Senate need a lot of education that, perhaps, we can provide. So, yeah, well, remains to be seen, but I am optimistic for what we might be able to get done there.
Scott
Yeah. Couldn't agree more. I think when Zuckerberg spoke before various committees, it was evident that there were some things that could be made more clear to legislators. And not to disparage them, they're required to be subject matter experts or at least have a working knowledge of many, many complicated topics. Social is complex, and the algorithms are very complex.
And the impact on society is complex. And so I think the biggest thing is encouraging healthy discussion, encouraging understanding, and bringing in folks who really have a great hold. So I'm thrilled for you. I'm really excited. Hopefully, you'll get in there and have a big impact and have a meaningful dialog. As you look at where social and influencers are now, what's got you really excited?
What emergent trends are out there? What are you following? You're like, hey, this might be the next big thing, or this is what I have my eye on to see how it influences us going forward.
Lia
Yeah, I mean, I do think there are going to be more, expert influencers. I think they're going to be more like customer influencers. I saw recently that there was a brand that took a bunch of customers on an influencer trip instead of, well, I guess it's not an influencer trip, but instead of having influencers and creators, they took their customers on a trip.
I think that creators, customers, and employees are going to play a much bigger role. So it's not just the online social media influencer, but it's really looking at everybody now. Is a brand advocate included in that? I think having a CEO and a founder-led presence on social media is important.
Lia
I mean, there's a ton of data to back up when you have your CEO on social media, like customers trust you more, and people are more inclined to listen. So I think it's like instead of we have to turn and evolve from a social media influencer as the only voice that can advocate for a brand to looking at like, okay, who's all like, here, all the different people here, all the different groups that can advocate for us, and they're going to do it in different spaces in different ways.
But they're going to reach different audiences. And so I think it's like really expanding your definition of what an influencer or a creator is.
Scott
I love that we're banking on that strategy as CEO, being involved in social media. Hopefully that works out. I see what you did there. Y
Lia
Okay. Yeah.
Scott
That's love.
Kwame
Yeah, I think I am, it's huge. I think Scott and I talk about it a lot about getting Scott out there to bring a face to what we do. I don't remember the exact storyline. So, Mike, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think, at a certain point, Airbnb switched a lot of their general marketing dollars to more like public relations.
And the focus of focusing on, I would say, PR and ways to connect with your audience more by letting them know what's within the organization. Is so important. And as we're shifting closer and closer towards people being more public-facing in all categories, it is really important to present yourself in the way that you want to be seen in an authentic way.
And I love being able to attach more faces to later. But with that being said, you've had a lot of connections and a lot of opportunities to work with a lot of incredible brands. As a marketer, how do you go out and find these partnerships, what's your initial starting point and how do you progress from there?
Is there a person that you reach out to or how are these connections formed?
Lia
For that question, can I just clarify it for my partnerships or you're talking about me? Yes. Okay. Cool, cool, cool. I just want to make sure, I have been very lucky that all of my partnerships so far have been inbound. So I haven't had to go out and look for stuff. It's also, like I said, like, I don't necessarily consider myself an influencer, and that's not necessarily how I want to make the bulk of my money.
I'm not going to say no. Like, I think if a company that makes sense to me that I think is going to bring value or some sort of benefit to my audience, I'm very open to working with different brands. But so far I have not gone out and pursued any deals.
So, yeah, mostly it's all been inbound and then it's really just about evaluating, like, is this good for me? Is there like, is this a growth opportunity? And we're going to be able to like, work together again on different projects? I'm very much interested in finding some sort of recurring partnership, like any good influencer, having talked to so many of them.
But then I also like the audience, because right now I have a lot of trust, I think, with my audience, with my community. And so making sure that I'm not taking stuff that is going to destroy that trust, it's an interesting thing to start taking brand deals when you have been a marketer, and companies will approach you and they'll say, hey, can you put this in your newsletter?
And I'm like, this is not going to work. We've never worked together before. It's a really hard sell. People don't know you. You're like, you're a startup. It's not like I can tell you as somebody who teaches social marketing as somebody has, like, who has been a marketer like, this is not going to work. And there have been companies that have said like, yeah, whatever.
Still, this is what we want to run in the newsletter. And we're willing to pay for it. And I think at the beginning I was more willing to work with them. And then as I said, like I predicted, it didn't end up working out. And I was like, what? I can't take any more of these deals where, like, I fundamentally disagree with how they're marketing their product, even if the product is good, if the marketing is bad, it's not going to work.
And it will ultimately reflect badly on me because I'm not delivering for them. So it's just a weird situation to be in, to be like both marketer and influencer all at the same time. But it definitely has impacted how I make decisions.
Scott
That is super interesting. And, I would love to get by the time that this hits the market, you will, everyone out there will be able to access later social listening, which is a new launch coming out. I would love to get your input on that and get a first look before that hits, hits the public.
But, I'm curious. You have so many irons in the fire you're teaching, you've got your newsletter, you've got a lot of different things, like consulting type work. You just have so many different vectors of how you could spend your time and energy. And I'm curious when you look out, do you have a particular path that you're aiming at going forward where you want to lean into certain areas?
Do you want to keep having a division of time? What's on the horizon for you? And how do you want to manifest this next stage of your journey?
Lia
It's a good question, and I wish I could answer it very intentionally. I think I'm at a stage in my career where it's like, do I like these people and do I enjoy doing this? I think if you would have asked me when I was starting out my career, I would have given you a different answer.
So I don't know that my advice is necessarily applicable to somebody that's like if you're just getting started, like, listen, bills have to be paid. Like, don't do what I'm telling you to do. Don't be like, do I like these people? And is this fun? Like, that shouldn't be the only consideration. I think it's just when you've worked long enough and established enough relationships and established a reputation, I think you get to be a little choosier and decide, okay, like, this is fun.
These people are cool. I'm going to enjoy this. I'm also going to get paid like I have to. I'm not saying I don't have to work, but I think you can be a little bit more selective when you get to that point. I think when you're much younger. To me, I'm not even sure that I intentionally knew what I was doing, but I think when I first started, it was really about understanding who had the power, like who had the power in the, in the, in, in culture, in in the public sphere.
And so like I said, I did entertainment, then I did social, then I did influencer marketing. And so it was very much following like I'm very interested in who gets to tell a story. And that's what I was following at the time. And now I think I judge it by like, am I going to enjoy doing this?
Scott
I know you said it's maybe not for the young and there are sacrifices and trade-offs in life, but I do think the guidance of spending time with people who you enjoy, who you get energy from. It's funny. On our last call, Tim, the literal last quote was to find an amazing set of people, surround yourself, and spend all your time with them, and it'll be like the most fulfilling part of your journey and your life.
And I truly believe that. , you are a reflection of those who choose to spend time with. So even as a young person, there will be sacrifices that you have to make in the end. Life is hard and work is hard. But I do think, building an amazing team, surrounding yourself with people who you want to be like and aspire to, and that doesn't mean that they're all above you.
If there are people who are your employees, who are your peers that you feel would be an amazing influence and someone you want to be like, success doesn't mean top of the hierarchy. And I just feel like that message should be out there with young folks and you can be inspired in all directions. So I think it's a great message to get out there.
Lia
Yeah. Somebody once, somebody who hired me and was like building a team said, I'm looking for people who are smart, nice, and get shit done. And yeah, basically that has become like, yeah, that's who I look for. Smart, nice, and get shit done. Like.
Scott
Yeah, we say no genius jerks.
Lia
So there you go. All right. Everybody's got a different way of like, yeah, we're all basically saying the same thing. Yeah.
Scott
There's this. Don't be an asshole. Which I also agree with you. I think it's universal.
Kwame
Yeah, yeah, it's funny, I think this is maybe the third or fourth conversation that Scott and I have had with someone where we've mentioned, like, sometimes it just pays to be a nice person. You could be the absolute most efficient, most qualified person. And if you're just not a nice person, like, nobody will want to work with you.
Lia
It's a small industry, like people talk, everybody knows each other. We all have these conversations and we all work with each other at some stage or at some point in our careers. And so I think it's like, yeah, it behooves you to like, try and be as nice as possible. I mean, it's not always going to happen, but like, yeah, just be good to people because you're going to work with them again.
They're going to come back into your life or somehow like you will cross paths again. So I think you like making sure that you're somebody that people want to cross paths with. Paths are an important thing.
Kwame
Yeah. And, I mean, when you think about your journey and the people that you've gotten to work with, all the amazing people that you've gotten to work with, I think one thing that we like to, throw out here, for any marketers or any organizations that get to listen to this, any brands, hopefully, we have a, a little bit of a platform that we can share, right.
A message that you're passing on. So while we're at it, we try to make sure that we scratch your back as well. And in that same sentence, do you have any brands out there or organizations that you've been hoping to one day work with, or to advise or to get a closer relationship to that?
You're still on that journey to get that connection.
Lia
It's funny, I have never worked with Pinterest. And I don't know, there's something about Pinterest. I think the CMO right now is Canadian. I'm originally Canadian. I just like it. And who knows, I know nothing about the internal workings at Pinterest. I think I just like the product. I like how they've also managed to, they've stuck around, like, I don't know that Pinterest has ever been like the top 1, 2 or 3 platforms, but they've stuck around.
They now have a growing Gen-Z audience. I feel a little bit like LinkedIn. Pinterest is having a renaissance or a comeback or, I don't know, whatever you want to call it. It's like Gen Z all of a sudden is like, yeah, like I'm into Pinterest and I'm into LinkedIn. And so I like the sleeper hits.
And so I think if I was going to work with, I like working with tech companies, I like working with platforms. So I think probably Pinterest, I just think would be interesting to like, understand what they've got working or going on under the hood.
Scott
I love it. And, it's funny, we've been doing a lot of work right now with Pinterest around their influencer program. And trying to get more spun up. Maybe there's something that we can help with. Andrea, I think it's under MRF. Is.
Lia
Yes. Yes, exactly.
Scott
Yeah. We obviously later started in Canada, and have a happy presence in Vancouver, B.C., in Toronto. So some Canadian pride today is a holiday. So you're working on a holiday. But, now I think it's just been amazing hearing about your journey and all the different things that you've seen and watched as you've gone through your career and now how you're both continuing to work through and inspire the next wave, social and influencer and giving back with your teaching.
It's really great. So if people want to find you, where's the best place to go out and find your content and find the work they're doing? Engage with you?
Lia
Yeah, probably the best places. I have a newsletter called In Case You Missed it or ICM. I and that's for both creators and marketers. And then I'm on LinkedIn. I mean, like, aren't we all like, I'm on LinkedIn, Twitter threads, and Instagram pretty much every day? Not always posting, but I'm always there. Always lurking, always reading, always listening, seeing what's going on.
So, yeah, pretty much across the board.
Kwame
Awesome. Well, with that being said, Lia, it's been an absolute pleasure. I think Scott and I both really, really loved this conversation. It was super insightful. So thank you so much for joining us. We had a blast. And, we're looking forward to our audience connecting with you as well. And on that last note, if you enjoyed our conversation today, please hit that subscribe button.
We would love to have you back. I hope you enjoyed it. And we will see you next week.
Lia
See y'all. Thanks, guys.